Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your DPS numbers would never hold up in reality, lol. A mage can consistently put that out. A shaman will never have enough mobs in the camp to do that. It's simply not sustainable. Eventually the camp will be split, and you'll be sniping one at a time, in which a mage would be even better for.

You should really reconstruct your arguments. Instead of thinking "how am i going to convince people that shamans are better group dps than a group dps class" you should be thinking "how am i going to convince people that shamans utility would outweigh what a mage would bring". People might actually take you seriously then hehe.

You easily can, especially in Sebilis. Take Disco, for example. The Shaman can literally start root/rotting Frenzied Pox Scarab room while the Enchanters start clearing Disco 1. I am not sure why people think you can't multi-task in a group if you want faster clears. Just because people don't do it, doesn't mean you can't lol.

Shaman utility easily outweighs Mage utility. Assuming you aren't doing something like Royals that needs CoTH, a Shaman has more useful spells on top of decent DPS if called for. You have Malo, Slow, AoE slow, Torpor, Shaman Pet (which can tank just fine), and buffs.

There is a reason why hard camps like Fungi King don't use a Mage. The DPS isn't going to help. You want utility and consistency so you don't lose the camp due to back luck.

The problem is you don't take your own advice, and instead just insult me when you can't win the debate. It is just silly, and you aren't convincing anyone of anything other than you are an asshole when you don't get your way.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You easily can, especially in Sebilis. Take Disco, for example. The Shaman can literally start root/rotting Frenzied Pox Scarab room while the Enchanters start clearing Disco 1. I am not sure why people think you can't multi-task in a group if you want faster clears. Just because people don't do it, doesn't mean you can't lol.

Shaman utility easily outweighs Mage utility. Assuming you aren't doing something like Royals that needs CoTH, a Shaman has more useful spells on top of decent DPS if called for. You have Malo, Slow, AoE slow, Torpor, Shaman Pet (which can tank just fine), and buffs.

There is a reason why hard camps like Fungi King don't use a Mage. The DPS isn't going to help. You want utility and consistency so you don't lose the camp due to back luck.

The problem is you don't take your own advice, and instead just insult me when you can't win the debate. It is just silly, and you aren't convincing anyone of anything other than you are an asshole when you don't get your way.

No, you try to make people look stupid claiming you've somehow proved some new point by "math". It's pathetic, and every post you make, people respect you less on these forums. You're not helping anybody by making ridiculous claims, so I don't know why you continue to bother.

Learn to take criticism, and find other ways to provide value here. Perhaps through guides & videos presenting general information, such as how a shaman can pull/kill something. Not ridiculous unrealistic scenario claims.

[Vexenu]

So it's suddenly not about DPS, it's about utility? What utility is a Shaman adding to Enc/Enc/Clr that surpasses what, for example, a Necro could bring?

The Necro adds:
- Snare
- Pulling
- FD/Rez for wipes
- Possibility of 3rd charm pet in undead zones
- 2nd strongest summoned pet
- Twitching mana as needed
- Screaming terror on charm breaks
- Patch healing
- Corpse summons and associated tricks
- Most hilarious of all: with Epic and VP staff, can root rot 4 mobs off to the side of the group even better than a Shaman!!! lol, lmao even

The Shaman adds:

- A better slow, which is largely redundant with 2x Enchanters
- Torpor, which is largely useless with a Cleric CHing charm pets
- A mediocre pet, much worse than the equivalent level Necro pet
- Long durations DoTs also worse than the Necro's
- Patch healing
- Malo. Not really needed in most cases (if you assume Chanters have Tola robes they also have - MR gear for pets)
- Haste? Chanters got it covered
- Buffs? Not needed with charm pets
- SoW. N/A in dungeons where it matters
- Regrowth. Lol
- Shrink?? Lol
- JBB spamming??? <--- pathetically this is probably the most you would actually contribute to the group
- Mostly just standing around being a fat fuck Ogre leeching XP and loot from the actual useful members of the group

Shaman literally adds so little to Enc/Enc/Clr that you'd basically be dead weight.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you try to make people look stupid claiming you've somehow proved some new point by "math". It's pathetic, and every post you make, people respect you less on these forums. You're not helping anybody by making ridiculous claims, so I don't know why you continue to bother.

Learn to take criticism, and find other ways to provide value here. Perhaps through guides & videos presenting general information, such as how a shaman can pull/kill something. Not ridiculous unrealistic scenario claims.

I don't try to make people look stupid. You are doing that yourself by insulting me when you have nothing to contribute[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I show factual math, and you say "I don't like this example, therefore it doesn't count". I am sorry, but it does count, and you can easily play that way. I am sorry you don't have the imagination to think outside of playing the easy way.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because people don't do it, doesn't mean you can't lol.

I do that sort of thing duo'ing sometimes. The main reason larger groups tend not to is because when the inevitable death happens sooner or later you get the "why weren't you helping us??" argument and it sours people on the whole thing. EQ has a way of teaching people to be risk averse. But, yeah, easier camps like disco, it's an option. One area it's beneficial to do that, still an easier area but a high-traffic one, is the outer spiders in Velketor (the frenzies). P99's ruleset officially treats the named like separate camps so if you get some rule-lawyer trying to muscle his way in, a group can split and hold them down individually.

The problem here is the only camps you're going to do that at are all going to be easier areas which kind of fall beneath the needs of "best" composition. If we're talking about "best" anything in Sebilis (for example) I want to be talking about crypt or myconids, not disco or chef.

Danth

[Troxx]

Sorry on the delay with parses. Yesterday was really busy. I’ll get them compiled today from seb crypt.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't try to make people look stupid. You are doing that yourself by insulting me when you have nothing to contribute[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I show factual math, and you say "I don't like this example, therefore it doesn't count". I am sorry, but it does count, and you can easily play that way. I am sorry you don't have the imagination to think outside of playing the easy way.

You’re right I don’t have the imagination you do. I actually play in the reality where mages are better group dps than shamans, lol since you know, they are a group dps class.

Thank you for finally admitting that you’re imaginating, can’t wait for you to convince us next that Druids are better healers than clerics too.

I’ve wasted enough time responding to your ludicrous claims for now, good day.

[PatChapp]

Shaman is second tier in that group compared to a 2nd cleric or necro,but a mage would be last pick. The only thing they offer is Malo and unneeded DPS.
Even a wizard would be preferred, better burn rate and evac.
I have a lvl 60 magician for reference, I do not hate mages they just aren't useful on that group.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do that sort of thing duo'ing sometimes. The main reason larger groups tend not to is because when the inevitable death happens sooner or later you get the "why weren't you helping us??" argument and it sours people on the whole thing. EQ has a way of teaching people to be risk averse. But, yeah, easier camps like disco, it's an option. One area it's beneficial to do that, still an easier area but a high-traffic one, is the outer spiders in Velketor (the frenzies). P99's ruleset officially treats the named like separate camps so if you get some rule-lawyer trying to muscle his way in, a group can split and hold them down individually.

The problem here is the only camps you're going to do that at are all going to be easier areas which kind of fall beneath the needs of "best" composition. If we're talking about "best" anything in Sebilis (for example) I want to be talking about crypt or myconids, not disco or chef.

Danth

I agree with this. But again you wouldn't bring a Mage to the best camps in Seb like Fungi King hehe. I am talking about the parts of Seb you would bring a Mage to, which would be camps like disco. Even Crypt has enough mobs for root/rotting, so the Mage wouldn't be any more beneficial. If people want to try and argue a different camp where Mage would be superior, I am certainly open to hear it. But the current DPS data is from Seb.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re right I don’t have the imagination you do. I actually play in the reality where mages are better group dps than shamans, lol since you know, they are a group dps class.

Thank you for finally admitting that you’re imaginating, can’t wait for you to convince us next that Druids are better healers than clerics too.

I’ve wasted enough time responding to your ludicrous claims for now, good day.

Lol again, being silly isn't an argument, or evidence. I am sorry that a group DPS class like mage isn't great at their job in the higher levels. Mage really shines in the lower levels.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry on the delay with parses. Yesterday was really busy. I’ll get them compiled today from seb crypt.

Great!

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If people want to try and argue a different camp where Mage would be superior, I am certainly open to hear it.

Juggernaut area probably plays most to the magician's strength since piggybacking the magician on a raid down to later call of the hero everyone in for jugg farms or named kills is how some of the groups down there do actually operate. So between those two classes the magician maybe wins, what, one out of five or six camps? I wouldn't call that a ringing endorsement. For the most part I think we can agree the shaman wins the "battle of the back-ups" for this enchanter-based quad group. For the entirety of the game I still prefer something like a necromancer over either as a 4th for our ench-ench-cler 4-man but that's separate from the magician-vs-shaman sub-debate.

Danth