student loans are a hit!

[Ooloo]

Guys lets just not have laws cause they don't do anything. Studies have shown it!!

Here's a study: I don't commit crime cause I don't want to go to jail. End of study.

[unsunghero]

The difference between giving away 10 years of your life, especially as a younger offender, versus like 20-30 years, is beyond words better. Not to mention for middle aged offenders, the idea of giving away the best decades of your life to a complete shithole prison, and getting out at the nice old age, is just as bad mentally on someone as doing a few years?

Is anyone really trying to make this argument?

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference between giving away 10 years of your life, especially as a younger offender, versus like 20-30 years, is beyond words better. Not to mention for middle aged offenders, the idea of giving away the best decades of your life to a complete shithole prison, and getting out at the nice old age, is just as bad mentally on someone as doing a few years?

Is anyone really trying to make this argument?

Well see there's a study, so... that means its true. It also means there totally aren't other studies that directly contradict it.

It's just laughably absurd. If the penalty for jaywalking was 30 years in prison instead of a stern talking-to, would there be more or less jaywalking? Apparently it would make absolutely no difference to jaywalking rates, because of the magic study!

This is the danger of venerating every generic academic; some of them are really stupid, and the methodology of their studies is dogshit and they set out with a particular conclusion in mind that they're searching for from the get-go. That's not science. But it sounds sciency enough to convince people.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well see there's a study, so... that means its true. It also means there totally aren't other studies that directly contradict it.

It's just laughably absurd. If the penalty for jaywalking was 30 years in prison instead of a stern talking-to, would there be more or less jaywalking? Apparently it would make absolutely no difference to jaywalking rates, because of the magic study!

This is the danger of venerating every generic academic; some of them are really stupid, and the methodology of their studies is dogshit and they set out with a particular conclusion in mind that they're searching for from the get-go. That's not science. But it sounds sciency enough to convince people.

The legal system gives millions and millions of dollars to people who give decades of their life for wrongful imprisonment. If we are going to attach a dollar value for how bad it is to give away the entire time when your body is in the prime of its life in a complete shithole

[Ooloo]

I also don't understand how you can even measure such a thing, really.

Like, a guy murders somebody. Okay. That's not evidence that deterrence doesn't work, it's just evidence it didn't work for that specific guy. How are you supposed to measure all the other hypothetical people who *would* have murdered but didn't because of the harsh penalties? The conclusion that deterrence doesn't work seems fundamentally unfalsifiable and therefor useless for drafting policy.

It reminds me a lot of the arguments against drug prohibition. It's always some variation of "there are laws against it and people do it anyway, therefor the laws don't stop it!". And it's like, go check the stats on drug abuse in Singapore. Pretty sure deterrence works.

[Nibblewitz]

As the price of something rises, the quantity demanded decreases. Raise the price of crime to reduce crime.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."

-Vladmir Lenin

Is quoting Lenin still a power move? The entire "This is what a revolution will look like" lore of your average sensible in-era revolutionary still sounds like something out of Jules Verne's discarded romans à clef.

And if that isn't bad enough we have of late been reminded that Russia, much like Carthage, must be destroyed.

Muscovia delendam est

Well, this is literally a case of, "as the old saying goes." History might not make sense but it rhymes like Busta.

[unsunghero]

Saddest scene in Shawshank is a good explanation of what it must feel like to give your life to prison and get out at the tail end

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As the price of something rises, the quantity demanded decreases. Raise the price of crime to reduce crime.

It doesn't work that way unfortunately, and that's not just me bullshitting it's borne out by criminologists; criminals tend not to be the most rational actors. In fact, it does the exact opposite. Being in prison longer more extensively destabilizes lives and further indoctrinates into criminality.

Even the corrections union, JSTOR (journal of a bunch of lawyers), and Federal Office of Justice Programs (corrections oversight) say this

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't work that way unfortunately, and that's not just me bullshitting it's borne out by criminologists; criminals tend not to be the most rational actors. In fact, it does the exact opposite. Being in prison longer more extensively destabilizes lives and further indoctrinates into criminality.

How do we measure the people who were deterred by the penalty from attempting in the first place. How do they report this on surveys? They go fill out some survey saying they were thinking about x crime but changed their mind because of the penalty?

Looks like your studies are cherry picking re-offenders. Longer sentences also deter offending by keeping the person away from the public for longer, do they not?