Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Tann]

we've not quite hit peak performance, this thread is only gaining 1-3 pages per day.

[Naethyn]

It's called an ogre wall on tunare for a reason.

[Naethyn]

also interestingly iksars are the best tank for tunare because of small waist and tall.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also interestingly iksars are the best tank for tunare because of small waist and tall.

Not enough analysis of hit and collision boxes from a min max perspective! I love this post!

You know these boxes also change depending on whether the model is male or female?

Which is best Tunare tank? Boy or girl?

[Troxx]

General facts:

Fact: any level 60 shaman with torpor can solo any mob that is shaman soloable
Fact: Botb solo artist is/was a barbarian (this furthermore supports the above fact)

Racial facts:

Fact: barbarians level much faster, large race perks (stats/slam), and can use JBB
Fact: iksars get racial regen and ac boost
Fact: trolls get racial regen, large race perks (stats/slam) and can use JBB
Fact: ogres get FSI, large race perks (stats/slam) and can use JBB

Racial perk facts:

Fact: racial regen is present from level 1, scales up with level, and provides benefit 100% of the time you are not 100% hp.
Fact: FSI is present from level 1
Fact: Bash used to stun 100% of the time - no longer
Fact: mobs have a 50% chance to kick (not bash) and miss 50% of the time.
Fact: unslowed mobs have a 25% chance to land a bash every 8 seconds … of which only a portion of said landed bashes will result in an actual stun
Fact: FSI only stops you from being stunned by a bash, not from being interrupted fully
Fact: FSI will result in actually experiencing less interrupts

The above are facts.
They are not subjective.

What follows below is the meat of the discussion. I will add the disclaimer that despite my or anyone else’s actual opinion this falls within the realm of the subjective. Depending on what an individual person values, the actual “best” choice will differ.

It is annoying to be interrupted while casting. I fully agree with this. If I’m fully honest, I cannot think of a single instance where a bash did anything but mildly annoy me. I cannot recall a single instance where being bashed meant I died, someone around me died, or I failed to achieve the objective I had set out to do. Hasn’t happened to me. Not once, not ever. Not in 60 levels of shaman. Not on my mage, cleric, paladin, Ranger, or druid. Closest ever has been on my necro with a quadding charm break … but necros can’t be ogres and it didn’t kill or really set me back much.

A compelling argument (opinion) can be made for FSI, but it has not been nor will it be objectively proven to be “best”. The stars and planets have to align perfectly for it to ever be the deal maker/breaker … and even then … if a single frontal bash stun is what got you killed, I’d argue it’s because your gameplay is poor. You shouldn’t be (ever) in a position where a bash kills ya.

So what do you have with FSI? If the mob isnt slowed you have about a 25% chance to be bashed every 8 seconds but only a portion of those bashes will result in a stun. If a landed bash wasn’t going to stun you - no benefit. Whatever frequency it would have actually resulted in a stun, make that frequency even smaller once you have the mob slowed.

So what do you have with FSI? You have immunity from a minor annoyance that doesn’t actually decrease your chance of success at pretty irregular intervals.

Now, I’m not saying it doesn’t have value. It certainly does … but when you compare that to all the extra hp (and mana) you give up over the course of your character’s life … it does not even begin to cover the gap.

There are 59 levels before 60. There is possible time at 60 where you might not yet even have a copy of torpor. Once you do have torpor, even a barbarian will have no problems … and they don’t get either bonuses. Regen is amazing. Regrowth is still the most mana efficient heal in a shaman’s toolkit (9.5 health per mana vs 6-7.5 from torpor depending on whether you got the extra tick).

What does FSI let you accomplish that you couldn’t without? Nothing. So really we’re just talking annoyance mitigation and a tiny quality of life improvement.

Compared to innate, continuous regen that is good for any class but even more so on a caster that converts hp to mana.

A good read regarding FSI:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s....php?p=3429132

What is the best race?

Top priority: fashion quest (always) … any race
Fastest leveling: barbarian
“I have autism and can’t think abstractly” - ogre
Best quality of life for the life of your character: troll/iksar
Want that regen and to PL yourself with a JBB: troll

Don’t kid yourself bro. FSI doesn’t help you solo anything better. There’s nothing you can or have solo’d that any other race of shaman can’t or hasn’t also solo’d.

Weren’t you caught on video not being able to root rot 4 KC mobs?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

“I have autism and can’t think abstractly”

Very good post overall, well structured and I agree 100% with your conclusions.

But please don't imply autistic people can't think abstractly. That perpetuates a harmful stereotype.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Very good post overall, well structured and I agree 100% with your conclusions.

But please don't imply autistic people can't think abstractly. That perpetuates a harmful stereotype.

“People with autism have problems with abstract and conceptual thinking. Some may eventually acquire abstract skills, but others never will. When abstract concepts must be used, use visual cues, such as drawings or written words, to augment the abstract idea.“

https://www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca/ar...bstract%20idea.

“Abstract thinking is generally highly correlated with problem-solving ability which is predictive of better adaptive functioning. Measures of conceptual reasoning, an ecologically-valid laboratory measure of problem-solving, and a report measure of adaptive functioning in the natural environment, were administered to children and adults with and without autism. The individuals with autism had weaker conceptual reasoning ability than individuals with typical development of similar age and cognitive ability. For the autism group, their flexible thinking scores were significantly correlated with laboratory measures of strategy formation and rule shifting and with reported overall adaptive behavior but not socialization scores. Therefore, in autism, flexibility of thought is potentially more important for adaptive functioning in the natural environment than conceptual reasoning or problem-solving.“

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6067678/

“For children on the autism spectrum, abstract thinking might pose challenges due to a tendency toward concrete thinking and difficulty with interpreting non-literal language. However, this doesn't mean they lack abstract thinking altogether. Many exhibit strengths in focused areas and may develop unique strategies to navigate abstract concepts.“

https://bighearttoys.com/blogs/autis...tract-thinking


—————————

Yes - it was an inappropriate jab at DSM but problems with making the transition from concrete thought (neurotypical for toddlers and younger children) to abstract thought (the neurotypical transition in your older childhood to early adolescent years) is one of the hallmark struggles for those who are on spectrum. For people who have high functioning autism - it is a key area of struggle and is a defining aspect of the condition itself.

A defining feature of the condition is not what I would really call a “stereotype”

DSM get’s so lost on the weeds with his napkin math that he has historically been unable to step back and either look at the bigger picture or the same picture from a different angle.

He is the poster child for a “concrete thinker”

Objectively, after years of observing his argument structure, prose, tendency to double down, interactions with others on this forum … in trying to follow his cognitive train of thought … and last but not least obsession with whatever conclusion he has come to or opinion he holds …

I’m pretty confident he’s on spectrum (diagnosed or otherwise)

The alternative is he has an internet persona that is entirely separate from his actual *person* in real life or has always played an elaborate ruse on the community and is, in fact, a double black belt in intrawebs trolling.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A defining feature of the condition is not what I would really call a “stereotype”

Interesting, you've given me some food for thought. I don't want to derail this thread further, so I'll spoiler my response. If you have a further response, maybe take it to DMs?

 

Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum

Autism is currently defined as a highly variable neurodevelopmental disorder that is generally thought to cover a broad and deep spectrum, manifesting very differently from one person to another. The spectrum model should not be understood as a continuum running from mild to severe, but instead means that autism can present very differently in each person.

In other words, because it's a spectrum, it's not really possible for any one feature to be defining.

Certainly, a predisposition towards taking language extremely literally is common, as is a pedantic tendency to fixate on the "trees" instead of the "forest". And I bet we can both think of more than one person on this forum for whom that description is relevant.

However, that's not what I think about when I think about abstract thought.

Originally Posted by Hans Asperger

Autistic children have the ability to see things and evens around them from a new point of view, which often shows surprising maturity. This ability, which remains throughout life, can in favorable cases lead to exceptional achievements which others may never attain. Abstraction ability, for instance, is a prerequisite for scientific endeavour. Indeed, we find numerous autistic individuals among distinguished scientists.

It seems that for success in science and art, a dash of autism is essential. For success, the necessary ingredient may be an ability to turn away from the everyday world, from the simply practical, an ability to rethink a subject with originality so as to create in new untrodden ways.

In my mind higher mathematics is the epitome of abstract reasoning, and the prevalence of autistic people in STEM fields is what led to my initial objection. As Dr. Asperger wrote about one of his patients:

Seeing that he was already fascinated by geometry at age three, she drew a triangle (a three-cornered figure), a square (a four-cornered figure), and a pentangle (a five-cornered figure) for him in the sand. He immediately drew a line and a dot, proclaiming the line a two-cornered figure and the dot a one-cornered figure.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

“I have autism and can’t think abstractly” - ogre

Don’t kid yourself bro. FSI doesn’t help you solo anything better. There’s nothing you can or have solo’d that any other race of shaman can’t or hasn’t also solo’d.

Weren’t you caught on video not being able to root rot 4 KC mobs?

As usual, insults and trolling are the actual reason why you post. You can tell he is just trolling becuse his next post is a long rant on why he thinks I am autistic. Providing fake medical diagnoses online is always sad to watch. He spent more time on that post I bet.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What follows below is the meat of the discussion. I will add the disclaimer that despite my or anyone else’s actual opinion this falls within the realm of the subjective. Depending on what an individual person values, the actual “best” choice will differ.

The core thrust of your post was not to present facts unfortunately. You are simply trying to undermine the idea that racials can be objectively quantified, so you do not have to use evidence to back up your opinions on Regeneration, JBB, etc. That is why what you say is largely just an opinion, because you cannot back it up with anything concrete.

You already know what the objective definition of Min/Max is, because you agree that Iksar Monks are better than Human Monks. Claiming that racial importance is subjective undermines the entire argument that Iksar Monks are better than Human Monks. You are simply changing the definition of Min/Max from class to class, when it suits your opinion.

If people want the facts on Shaman racials, they can take a look at the guide in my signature. It has a lot more evidence and detailed analysis than Troxx's post, which is again just a troll in disguise.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But please don't imply autistic people can't think abstractly. That perpetuates a harmful stereotype.

I keep telling him to stop insulting autistic people. But he seems content with attacking people who cannot defend themselves.

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like this because its relatively quantifiable.

Generally, the situation would be:
1) Shaman must emergency slow flurry due to tank death
2) Shaman gets aggro after landing a cast slow (which is usually how they'll get aggro)

The shaman is dead before they cast again in this case. There's essentially 0 chance of surviving through a cast, much less the recharge time. However, FSI might let you get 1 additional swing of the shilleagh in, since there is a decent chance the Shaman will be killed in 2 combat rounds instead of 1. Very infrequently a Shaman might survive two combat rounds with a flurry, but usually they'll die on the second one.

There's about a 5% chance of proccing on swing. FSI has to actually work to make the difference of getting that swing. Looking at my logs, it looks like Flurries are bashing about once every 3 combat rounds, so maybe a 1/3 chance of bash. Flurries have about a 75% hit rate, so it has to hit you with that.

I don't have the % chance to get stunned by a bash, but if I count the first 25 bashes I have in my log file, I got stunned 5 times, so will estimate 20%.

That's a 0.25% chance, which is further reduced by:
--Does it resist? I don't know what the resist rates look like.
--Did that make a difference for the raid? If someone else slows it, it doesn't matter, but if that's the last slow attempt you just saved the raid with FSI.

Honestly, if its even a 1 in 1000 chance of saving the raid, that's kind of better than I thought it might be coming into this analysis.

Thanks!

[Tann]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

General facts:
Fact: any level 60 shaman with torpor can solo any mob that is shaman soloable
Fact: Botb solo artist is/was a barbarian (this furthermore supports the above fact)

Same goes for necros and what they can solo, ain't nothing an iksar necro can solo that the other races can't.

Just just fax ma'am