Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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That is my rebuttal to your moronic suggestion about root rotting in a charm group.

"My preference"? Pretty sure that's nearly everyone in the game, you frothing madman.

And you have no data to back up that claim either lol.

"Most people prefer to root/rot in groups". See? I can make the claim too, and we are back to square one without data.

[Chortles Snortles]

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[Gloomlord]

Most people prefer, in a 6 man group, to efficiently down a mob one by one, with adds being negated by a puller splitting and quickly grabbing them before others spawn around it, or simply CCing them. So why would they like 2 idiots waltzing off to quad and destroy this efficiency?

And thus why would a 2 charm enchanter group, with a cleric to heal the charm pets and slip ups and stun, want a shaman who does not contribute to the speed of single target DPS and root rots irrelevant mobs?

They wouldn't, assuming they're sane.

How can you get out of this one?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most people prefer, in a 6 man group, to efficiently down a mob one by one, with adds being negated by a puller splitting and quickly grabbing them before others spawn around it, or simply CCing them. So why would they like 2 idiots waltzing off to quad and destroy this efficiency?

And thus why would a 2 charm enchanter group, with a cleric to heal the charm pets and slip ups and stun, want a shaman who does not contribute to the speed of single target DPS and root rots irrelevant mobs?

They wouldn't, assuming they're sane.

How can you get out of this one?

Easy. Let's switch to pure experience, since you seem to be unable to provide any evidence to back up your claims.

From my experience of playing on this server for years, people don't care that much about DPS.

I have never seen a group gear check players, and groups often times form in sub-optimal configurations. This is easily losing 30+ DPS on a per group basis, which is the difference in DPS between a Mage and a Shaman without root rotting.

The reality is people will lose 30 DPS without thinking and not even notice. Groups also tend to break up when they wipe. The value in decreasing your groups chances of wiping tends to outweigh slightly faster kill speeds. This is because spawn timers are going to slow down your progress no matter what. You do not get an infinite stream of mobs at your disposal. A group may plan on fighting for 4 hours, but then disbands after 2 hours due to a wipe.

Please do not bring player skill into the discussion. I have seen the most skilled players in the game screw up. Nobody is perfect. It is a straw man to make the claim that I am talking about bad players in this scenario.

[Gloomlord]

You say they "don't care about DPS".

But even if this is true, why would they pick shaman over mage if they were going to have a 4 man group of friends exping to 60?

We also established that the people in question know what they're doing but have human limitations on stamina. Mage is an obvious choice over shaman.

Do I really need to provide "evidence" about the overwhelming majority of people not wanting 2 idiots in a 6 man group doing their own thing? Even a bad player can see how obtuse that is.

You've lost the argument. There's no getting out of this.

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by Karanis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, no one is saying you couldn't theoretically meet or surpass mage dps by root-rotting non-high level Sebilis mobs (certainly not ilis frogs or wizards) off to the side.

We're saying most 4-man caster groups would rather have a largely irrelevant mage increasing single target dps as the enchanter pets melt 1 mob at a time, along with their other perks; than an almost entirely irrelevant shaman off-healing OR doing some dumbass root-rotting of adds off to the side in order to dps.

Just to reiterate, it's possible, it's just retarded.

You have lost the argument.

It is over.

Checkmate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You say they "don't care about DPS".

But even if this is true, why would they pick shaman over mage if they were going to have a 4 man group of friends exping to 60?

We also established that the people in question know what they're doing but have human limitations on stamina. Mage is an obvious choice over shaman.

Do I really need to provide "evidence" about the overwhelming majority of people not wanting 2 idiots in a 6 man group doing their own thing? Even a bad player can see how obtuse that is.

You've lost the argument. There's no getting out of this.

Easy. A Shaman provides more safety and camp options, and the group won't notice the DPS loss. That is my experience from years of play. The optimal DPS threshold for group content is around 200 at level 60. The dimishing returns get too heavy at that point, and most group comps can hit 200 easy. You would need to try and make a really bad group comp to be well under 200.

[Gloomlord]

Right, so shaman can provide slightly more camp options...but as PlsNoBan has pointed out, that is so niche that shaman is still more irrelevant than mage if all they want is some extra DPS.

You've now switched from the root rotting argument, which you know is utterly flawed, to now saying that shaman "opens up more potential doors".

As I've said: this is a never-ending circle of insanity. You'll keep switching from one argument to another when one fails, and then go back to the same one when we've poked holes in that one. You deliberately frustrate your opponent, and then claim "SEE?! YOU'RE TROLLING!" when they tell you to piss off.

How do you not see you've lost the argument? I call your bluff.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, so shaman can provide slightly more camp options...but as PlsNoBan has pointed out, that is so niche that shaman is still more irrelevant than mage if all they want is some extra DPS.

You've now switched from the root rotting argument, which you know is utterly flawed, to now saying that shaman "opens up more potential doors".

As I've said: this is a never-ending circle of insanity. You'll keep switching from one argument to another when one fails, and then go back to the same one when we've poked holes in that one. You deliberately frustrate your opponent, and then claim "SEE?! YOU'RE TROLLING!" when they tell you to piss off.

How do you not see you've lost the argument? I call your bluff.

This is all nonsense. If you want to know my experience (which cannot be proven with data), that has been my experience. I am not switching arguments, I have said all of this before many times. You haven't read my posts, which is why you think I am switching arguments, or root rotting is my primary argument. Root rotting isn't even included in my data lol.

I have played with the top guilds and highly skilled players. I have been on this server for years. People don't care that much about DPS. It isn't as important as safety and camp options. The reality is group content is tuned for players with average/below average gear, but most people are using gear that is above the tuned levels. So its much easier to hit optimal DPS breakpoints with all sorts of group combinations. We are not playing in 1999 where everybodies gear sucks, which is when a Mage shines.

[Gloomlord]

Well, why even bring up root rotting, regardless? All it does is serve to make you look like an even bigger idiot.

If root rotting is not included in your data, and your data says that mage still does a fair bit more, then you yourself have provided evidence that shaman is unwarranted in a group which includes an enchanter and cleric, the strongest duo in the game.

I'd wager most people in this thread, too, are highly skilled and have played P99 for years. Nearly every single one of them disagrees with you. Your "appeal to authority" fallacy has no merit here.