religion

[G13]

Originally Posted by Archalen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm quite curious, how do you think the universe and life began?

I don't think you can look at how complex and finely tuned The Universe is and come to the conclusion it structured and ordered itself from Nothing or by random chance. The probabilities that our reality was built this way are just not workable mathematically.

The laws that govern the Universe did not write themselves. The obvious engineering and design behind kinds/types/body plans show an obvious creative mind behind their development. You don't see mis-happen and randomly formed life. Quite the contrary. You see life with specific functions that supports other life.

The harmony and symbiosis between plants and animals. The seasons. The self healing and self replicating functions of all life. It's too complex. Time doesn't make things more complex. Quite the contrary actually. Time = Entropy and Entropy damages and erodes genetic code. Things become more disorganized over time.

Clearly aliens didn't build the universe. Didn't write it's laws. If aliens existed they would be ruled under the same laws that govern the entire universe. Time/Space/Matter came into existence with "The Big Bang". If you look at the essence of Matter, a table for instance, 99% of what you perceive as solid matter is actually only about 1-2% Matter. Your reality is governed by how your brain is processing data and electrical signals. Think of your life as literally a virtual reality. Your body an organic machine that temporarily hosts your eternal soul in this reality. There is a creative mind that exists outside Time and Space that is behind our Reality. It's all about perception and perspective.

Time/Chance is not a creative force. Consciousness, Moral absolutes and Love are Spiritual forces and Creative forces beyond the 5 senses. Beyond the physical world. A Creator would obviously let himself be known to his creation. He would want his creations to behave in certain ways to protect them from themselves (sin). He would lead by example through actions, not words, as to what the Love of a parent really is for their children (Self Sacrifice) but at the same time He would want his children to "choose" to love Him willingly out of their own Free Will. He wouldn't create "I Love You" robots.

I firmly believe that Jesus Christ answers all of those questions perfectly. His life. His teachings. His Death and His resurrection. That's not about a religion either by the way. Religion has nothing to do with it. Mankind by his very nature is deceitful and corrupt. If you rely on mankind for Truth you are putting your "Faith" in the wrong place.

Now it's perfectly understandable if you do not share that view and there are plenty of people that believe in Intelligent Design who are not Christians. They are perfectly logical and reasonable people that see the obvious intelligence and creativity in all life. Personally I don't think anyone can be "convinced" to believe in God. Through your own journey in Life you're going to go through shit that leads you down that path, but you're never going to take that first step until you learn grace, humility and forgiveness. These are spiritual things. Intangible things, but it doesn't make them any less real.

This is the problem that Evolutionists can't deal with. They've become too comfortable in their ivory towers dictating how things are to everyone else, except all of their assertions are based upon frauds like Piltdown Man, The Peppered Moth, the bogus embryo drawing ect. When challenged they run from the debate like Leewrong or they call you retarded without offering any rebuttal.

I hope that answers your question.

[Tenlaar]

I like how you chose to ignore the part of my post that you should have tried to wrap your brain around. I'll repeat it just for you.

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is an irrefutable fact: the answer to anything and everything that has been figured out in the history of humans as we know it has never, ever, not once been magic.

How about you show us all just one thing that was determined to have been caused by magic, then I'll start to consider magic as an answer to other questions.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like how you chose to ignore the part of my post that you should have tried to wrap your brain around. I'll repeat it just for you.



How about you show us all just one thing that was determined to have been caused by magic, then I'll start to consider magic as an answer to other questions.

Didn't the universe pull itself out of a hat at one point?

[G13]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like how you chose to ignore the part of my post that you should have tried to wrap your brain around. I'll repeat it just for you.



How about you show us all just one thing that was determined to have been caused by magic, then I'll start to consider magic as an answer to other questions.

What do you perceive "magic" to be?

Define "magic" as you perceive it to be

If you were to somehow fly a spaceship to some planet and discover a complex language/code more elegant and precise than anything mankind could ever possibly envision within the power of his own brain, would you call that magic? What would you call it?

[Whirled]

Jesus was said to use magic

[G13]

Originally Posted by Whirled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jesus was said to use magic

Really?

Please cite the passage

[Tenlaar]

Magic = supernatural forces.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you were to somehow fly a spaceship to some planet and discover a complex language/code more elegant and precise than anything mankind could ever possibly envision within the power of his own brain, would you call that magic? What would you call it?

I would call it something that I don't yet understand.

[Tenlaar]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't the universe pull itself out of a hat at one point?

I don't know how the universe was formed. Based on that, I can only assume it was somehow related to a giant space turtle who watches me with a disappointed frown while I masturbate.

[Whirled]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really?

Please cite the passage

Well I apologize if I butcher anyones religion since I'm not Jewish.

The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy

http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm

It is important to note that all of these magical effects were achieved through the power of G-d, generally by calling upon the name of G-d. These practices are no more "evil" than the miracles of the prophets, or the miracles that Christians ascribe to Jesus. In fact, according to some of my mystically-inclined friends, Jesus performed his miracles using kabbalistic techniques learned from the Essenes, a Jewish sect of that time that was involved in mysticism. .

[G13]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Magic = supernatural forces.



I would call it something that I don't yet understand.

What's a "supernatural force"? Elaborate

You wouldn't understand it to be something creatively and intelligently brought into existence? Why wouldn't you call it "magic" if you didn't know the exact fashion in which it was formed?