Lock Server Until an Agreement is Met

[sanforce]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing is stopping anyone from doing this to take advantage of the CAT A/B system or the Points system, or even the rotation system.

However, people will find out if one guild tries to do it on a large scale. TMO was found out pretty quick when they tried to move alts to a guild once before during a raid suspension.

That's why a raid scene that is based primarily on competition needs to be encouraged. We should be pushing rules that encourage guilds to stick together, not splinter.

I could easily have an unknown alt in a guild that takes advantage of all of these silly rules and switch it to my primary guild if the need ever arises. As it stands, it looks like I'm going to have a few of my main characters in my primary guild and a few secondary characters in guilds that takes advantage of these point rotations. I like to kill raid mobs, sorry.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by sanforce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's why a raid scene that is based primarily on competition needs to be encouraged. We should be pushing rules that encourage guilds to stick together, not splinter.

I could easily have an unknown alt in a guild that takes advantage of all of these silly rules and switch it to my primary guild if the need ever arises. As it stands, it looks like I'm going to have a few of my main characters in my primary guild and a few secondary characters in guilds that takes advantage of these point rotations. I like to kill raid mobs, sorry.

The current system doesn't work and will no longer be allowed. What do you suggest?

Also, any system that causes guilds to shed excess fat and still forces guilds to compete against each other is a great system in my eyes.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL'd. That guy is a hardcore raider, he fought tooth and nail to put TMO where it is!

Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Take this however you will, but know I haven't had my hand in the raiding scene for a few years. And I wont until Velious comes out at the very earliest. I'm done with current content. I'm just a casual scum that logs in a few days a week and plays alts or farms stuff(mostly for alts/friends). Also consider I'm one of the few members of VD that is still tagged. My view of TMO is somewhat less that amiable.

That said:

The 10 free raid days is a heck of a lot more than you had before. It's a "free dinner." Plus you can always compete the other 20 days of the month. This will work more in your favor when Velious comes out. Which brings me to my next point.

Rogean mentioning Velious might be released without raid content if things dont shape up means to me that Velious isn't that far away(relatively, considering the age of the server... a year away, maybe?) It was mentioned somewhere that beta will probably be this year. How long did Kunark Beta last? I dont recall exactly, but 2 months pops into my mind. Velious could be out this year, any agreement should reflect Velious raid content to some extent. Anything else is remarkably short-sighted.

I've been guilded in "plan B" guilds my entire raiding career. I very much doubt their member base would/could sustain 15 days of "hard" competition from the other "plan b" guilds for more than a few consecutive months before getting burnt out.

Also, how the "plan B" guilds are going to raid on "their" portion of the month should be worked into any agreement. Anything less will create bitter rivalries between them.

The proposal from TMO/FE seemed very reasonable, excepting a few minor details mentioned later in that thread. It puts forth a very stable base upon which a compromise can be reached.

Try to be reasonable. Don't abuse the position Nilb/Rog have given you.

Just my opinion.

Thank you unbiased 3rd party.

[Pint]

What's wrong with raiding in multiple guilds? Your helping each guild get the kills/loot with your extra effort. Some people are willing to put in significantly more time on p99, why shouldn't they expect higher returns?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The current system doesn't work and will no longer be allowed. What do you suggest?

Also, any system that causes guilds to shed excess fat and still forces guilds to compete against each other is a great system in my eyes.

To add to this, the only members of a guild I have seen repeatedly talk about dividing up into other guilds is TMO.

[sanforce]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's wrong with raiding in multiple guilds? Your helping each guild get the kills/loot with your extra effort. Some people are willing to put in significantly more time on p99, why shouldn't they expect higher returns?

Because that encourages small splinter guilds that will have just enough raid geared alts to get in on the rotations. If there are not that many people, then loot is likely to come your way after a few months of rotations. Repeat this process 50 times and the whole rotation idea bogs down in a hurry.

[JayN]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To add to this, the only members of a guild I have seen repeatedly talk about dividing up into other guilds is TMO.

LOL Fe/IB already have done just that

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by JayN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL Fe/IB already have done just that

Have they? what guilds have they divided into?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by sanforce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because that encourages small splinter guilds that will have just enough raid geared alts to get in on the rotations. If there are not that many people, then loot is likely to come your way after a few months of rotations. Repeat this process 50 times and the whole rotation idea bogs down in a hurry.

the system least damaged by guilds splintering is the points system.

Small guilds have a harder time logging people in at odd hours and it puts more stress on the trackers.

Again, I welcome the thought of guilds splintering and shedding their fat.

[sanforce]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The current system doesn't work and will no longer be allowed. What do you suggest?

Also, any system that causes guilds to shed excess fat and still forces guilds to compete against each other is a great system in my eyes.

I like the idea of giving up a few of the lower priority targets to give "Tier B" people raid experience and fun. But the number and relative need of the gifted mobs shouldn't be excessive. I would be alright with a 1 to 1 Tier A - Tier B rule rotation on certain mobs. Guilds should also be encouraged to form alliances and actually compete with the Tier A guilds, they might surprise themself and get targets. However, some of these demands that I'm seeing with everyone's new-found bargaining power are really unreasonable and could have unforeseen consequences to the server. I like brainstorming these unforeseen consequences because some of these wacky ideas are going to happen eventually.