Elder Scrolls Online

[Grimfan]

Originally Posted by formallydickman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For reals, Lemme play 3-6 in either an Oblivion or a Skyrim type game and call it good. Don't need 300,000 assholes standing around my quest mobs.

Yeah, I really dislike that about the game actually, it's my biggest problem with it. I'd really like to be able to just join my own instanced channel from number 1-20000 or whatever and play with friends there rather than be put in an overcrowded one with 300 other people. If they use the channel system, and TESO does to an extent, then I wish they would just let me switch whenever I want.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by MrSparkle001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No way am I reading all that. Crazy enough I got through most of that first post I pulled that quote from.

I never played SWG and know nothing about it other than they ruined it, but I stand my statement that that a TES skill system will not work in a MMO. One character should not be able to do everything, and that's what TES characters do. My most played Morrowind character has high levels in just about every skill in the game. He's an expert marksman, swordsman, axeman, shield user, light medium and heavy armor wearer, caster, summoner, acrobat, healer, stealther, pickpocket - you name it he's an expert. There's no way in hell that should ever happen in a MMO.

No, but you can still keep the versatility of the progression system in such a way that you can create a unique play style based on what you want to do entirely, without being funneled into rigid classes. You will not be able to be a Master of every profession, but there are effective ways to handle it. You said you never played SWG, but one thing that remains as the game's strongest contribution was its progression system.

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

SWG Progression: In SWG, you had 250 skill points. All players had these, and you can never truly consume them, only have them tied up. So how it worked was simple. You are a blank slate. You have starting "professions": artisan, entertainer, medic, scout, marksman, or brawler. So, what do you want to do? Artisan branches into Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, Architecture, and Droid Engineering. Entertainer into dancer, musician, and the like. Medic into Doctor. And so on, and so on. When you decide to take a starting profession, the skill "Novice <profession>" ties up X number of skill points (15), so you now have 235 left. As you do things pertaining to your profession, you gain experience in the different aspects of your profession. When you get enough, you can get trained, which consumes the experience, and ties up more skill points. The idea is that you can combine anything you want up to 250 skill points. So, you want to be a Commando/Architect? You take Brawler and Marksman to branch into Commando (not taking the full tree in either Brawler or Marksman, only those needed for Commando), take Novice Commando, and everything in Commando, as well as take Artisan, and everything to become an Architect. But lets say you decide you don't want to do it anymore, you don't like being an architect. You can surrender your Architect skills, get back your Skill Points, and reinvest them in new talents.

How ESO can benefit from SWG: Imagine Skyrim's talent system, but expanded. One in which you can have, at any one time, 50 perks from the talent trees. You can work your way up One Handed and Destruction, or Two Handed and Alteration, and distribute your points to take both full trees. Or you can spread them over a wide range of different trees, and take less from each. The only restrain is you cannot go over 50 perk points. Decide you don't want to go Two-Handed and Alteration, but want to go Alteration, Restoration, and Heavy Armor? Delete your perks, freeing yourself from the 50 cap, and reinvest the perks elsewhere. This would let you have a system that is still ((very much a TES like system, but offers enough constraint to be in a MMO)).

Note I edited the (( )) area for clarity.

[MrSparkle001]

Originally Posted by Grimfan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I really dislike that about the game actually, it's my biggest problem with it. I'd really like to be able to just join my own instanced channel from number 1-20000 or whatever and play with friends there rather than be put in an overcrowded one with 300 other people. If they use the channel system, and TESO does to an extent, then I wish they would just let me switch whenever I want.

The only problem a lot of people in an instance causes (besides the current bug like I said) is that it will be harder to find chests.

[Skittlez]

Originally Posted by MrSparkle001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No way am I reading all that. Crazy enough I got through most of that first post I pulled that quote from.

I never played SWG and know nothing about it other than they ruined it, but I stand my statement that a TES skill system will not work in a MMO. One character should not be able to do everything, and that's what TES characters do. My most played Morrowind character has high levels in just about every skill in the game. He's an expert marksman, swordsman, axeman, shield user, light medium and heavy armor wearer, caster, summoner, acrobat, healer, stealther, pickpocket - you name it he's an expert. There's no way in hell that should ever happen in a MMO.

I guess I should mention that when i say TES system I mean like Morrowind. I never played Oblivion and only dabble in Skyrim. Morrowind and Daggerfall are my favorites and I probably have 100x more experience with them than with Skyrim, maybe more. I only assume that in Skyrim we can also become experts at everything and not actually have to choose what we want.



Who cares if they do (besides the current bug where it may not spawn). There's no such thing as camping. At least half the quests I did were completed with others and it didn't affect anything or take away from the experience or anything like that.

You can't do everything in SWG and no combination of classes that I can remember were too powerful. SWG is a great example of how an MMO can stray from the norm in classing and still be successful. SOE did all the damage them selves. The game was incredible until they altered it for its 'difficulty that new players had'. It was all because they were having slow sales some time after release.

[Shaakglith12194]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's just bothersome, because MMOs have succumbed to trying to deliver a game story, rather than putting the story out there, and letting you explore it. That's what MMOs were about. Story isn't shoved in your face in life. Story is nebulous, it's floating out there, it's in the background. You need to seek it out and find it. Puzzle it.

I think you hit the nail on the head in a lot of areas of your posts in this discussion. This one in particular resonated with me, because it seems like aside from WoW, the REALLY successful MMOs (Eve Online, EQ1, EQ2, SWG) put the story out there as background and let you figure out your own story. WoW and many games like it pretty much made you a spectator to the parade that was the story. You might be the one tanking Ragnaros today, but there was nothing special about your doing it. Lots of other people had done and would do the same thing, so ultimately, you could be powerful but you were insignificant in the grand scheme of things. The story would proceed as if you were never there.

On Live EQ, you could be famous, adding to the story by actually making the player's personal story and actions real in a meaningful way. There were legends in the old days and you could look at those people and say, "I want to be a legend like that dude." Hell, there are a few well known people on this server, though I think the legendary status isn't quite the same as it was on live, since the game is completely explored. You can go to freaking wikipedia and read about the sleeper being killed on RZ, is how real the player's actions could be. In Eve Online there are plenty of dudes who are famous. The player's actions ARE the story in that game. I have an issue of Game Informer that has a full-page interview with a guy who accidentally started one of the largest battles in the game's history. In EQ2 on Nagafen (back before the Odus expansion), there were dudes so badass at their class that when you saw them in the world, you knew you were probably going to die. They were good and they had a reputation for kicking ass. EQ2 isn't maybe the best example, but the point stands. Who is famous on WoW? Leroy Jenkins or the dudes that pvped that in-game funeral. They're famous because they made stupid videos. If the Leroy Jenkins video had never been made, nobody on that server would have even heard about that idiot. If the funeral pvp video had never been made, nobody outside of maybe half a dozen guilds would have known about it.

I've played quite a few hours of TESO beta and I'm very sad at what they've done to the TES franchise. Keep in mind, though, that it's not Bethesda working on this game. I think they're being consulted or have some hand/input into its development, but the studio is Zenimax Online. All they had to do was make Elder Scrolls 6 and add co-op. I'd pay $15 a month for THAT game if they just added some new stuff every few months.

It seems that the only MMOs worth playing are ones with new types of gameplay. Maybe Brad's new MMO will be good. I sure hope so. TESO isn't it for me, maybe I'll try it around this upcoming Thanksgiving when it's f2p. EQN looks like it's going to be crap. I've heard it's going to be 40 classes of dps with world destruction that lasts 5 minutes before it regenerates. I'll give it a try, setting the bar low so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. There's supposed to be a Warhammer 40k game coming out in the next couple years which sounds like it's going to be lots of fun.

Btw, am I the only one that thinks having only 6 abilities on your loadout is ridiculous? Hell, look at a level 60 warrior in EverQuest and between basic abilities, weapon procs, and clickies, they have more abilities available during combat than that! They don't even get spells, ffs!

[odiecat99]

Im glad most EQ (unlike eq2) Quests didnt give you Jack Shit for exp, it made you appreciate the adventure more.

I love that in EQ I can be a noob in a zone like feerrott and then come back mid to high 30s for spectres, then back again 46+ to raid.

I have always been a fan of that. Dont simply don't simply exhaust the quests line or the zone you are in.

this was a huge reason I hated world of crap craft was you just do your quest and you would move on and that was the end of it. I also hated the fact that it was instanced dungeons that s*** is wack know what I'm saying my n****

[Smedy]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

he says it'll fail cause of the sub model? thats pretty dumb imo. its things like pay to win, and station stores that ruin games.

15$ a month is less than 4$ a week. if you dont get 4$ a week of entertainment, then dont play it.

but personally i prefer sub model > everything else ive seen

agreed, sub model is the only way, the pay to win is retarded

[odiecat99]

I also agree

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by odiecat99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im glad most EQ (unlike eq2) Quests didnt give you Jack Shit for exp, it made you appreciate the adventure more.

I love that in EQ I can be a noob in a zone like feerrott and then come back mid to high 30s for spectres, then back again 46+ to raid.

I have always been a fan of that. Dont simply don't simply exhaust the quests line or the zone you are in.

this was a huge reason I hated world of crap craft was you just do your quest and you would move on and that was the end of it. I also hated the fact that it was instanced dungeons that s*** is wack know what I'm saying my n****

Yes. When you're a noob in the Oasis, you have fun killing orcs and alligators while dodging around giants. Until you see that badass dude on the center island killing those really creepy spectres. Until you find that enchanter coming along and mind controlling the giants that have been fucking with you. And you think, "Holy shit. I want to do that one day."...

And then one day in the future, you've spent likely months leveling. And then someone says "Hey, you should try killing spectres or giants in the Oasis.", so you return there, and now you're the person killing those awesome things. Noobs look on and get motivated to level, thinking that one day they will do what you do.

That type of world design just doesn't exist in modern MMOs. It is really sad. You're more like a tourist in the WoW model, because you go to each place once, just to see and exhaust the experience of being there. With games like EQ, and SWG, you're not a tourist, you're someone that lives here. You interact here. You need to know how to get from Highkeep to Qeynos, because you're going to go by there a lot. It's a lot more like learning your neighborhood that you just moved into. The exploration is learning every knook and cranny, every trick to travel around, all the secret places any given area has in plenty. It isn't about consuming a quick experience and saying "Well, that's everything", it's about the complexity and beauty of making a place into your home.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That type of world design just doesn't exist in modern MMOs. It is really sad. You're more like a tourist in the WoW model, because you go to each place once, just to see and exhaust the experience of being there. With games like EQ, and SWG, you're not a tourist, you're someone that lives here. You interact here. You need to know how to get from Highkeep to Qeynos, because you're going to go by there a lot. It's a lot more like learning your neighborhood that you just moved into. The exploration is learning every knook and cranny, every trick to travel around, all the secret places any given area has in plenty. It isn't about consuming a quick experience and saying "Well, that's everything", it's about the complexity and beauty of making a place into your home.

Very much this.

I like to explore because I live somewhere. I need to use this land. I want to be safer and travel faster through it. I want to be able to help others traverse it safely. I don't want to uncover every nook and cranny of a totally safe environment guaranteed to be level appropriate that I will never come back to just to get a checkmark in my achievement log.