Questioning GM Decisions - Page 18

Demetrium · #**171** 09-07-2011, 05:52 PM

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Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nanny nanny boo boo I can't hear you!

booter · #**172** 09-07-2011, 05:53 PM

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Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is about Hasbinbad trying to sweep this under the rug because the facts surrounding the situation are incredibly embarrassing to his guild. I can guarantee if the roles were reversed and a TMO Officer was caught red handed using a 3rd party hack lile Perun was, HBB would be creating thread demanding TMO be disbanded immediately and Durison tarred and feathered.

Just because you see everything on this server as TR vs TMO does not make it so. This thread has had a lot of great discussion, and your personal attacks and paranoia do nothing but edge it closer to RnF. By your logic, I could argue that you are trying to derail the thread to get it into the dead-end known as RnF so any discussion that doesn't fit your narrative disappears.

Nice job with all of your generalizations about every member of TR, though. At least it makes your intentions transparent.

I'll re-iterate - the thread is not about what YOU want it to be about. The OP was clearly laid out, you either need to re-read it or admit to being intellectually dishonest and just using it as a soapbox.

G13 · #**173** 09-07-2011, 06:19 PM

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Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is my last post in this thread. I'm tired of responding to YOUR hyperbole and emotional arguments, while you simultaneously accuse me falsely of these very things that you are doing.

Good. It will save me the time. I'm tired of correcting you with actual facts.

Stating that the rules should be enforced across the board equally is logical. Not emotional. You are arguing from the position that one guild and a set of players are above the law. That the rules don't apply to them. I reject that completely.

The rules are not being enforced equally across the board. This is just a fact based in evidence. You are not bringing anything to the table other than you're opinion of how you think the server should be, and how the community should respond when cheaters aren't appropriately punished.

If there are no guidelines firmly set on what is appropriate or inappropriate behavior than what we have is chaos. We're just making shit up as we go, reacting to situations. That's a recipe for disaster. My position is rules > everything. Above the feelings of you. Above the feelings of all guilds. The rules are law. This used to be the case, at least publicly, on P99. That is no longer the case.

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Your so-called facts are irrelevant in the face of other facts that make yours essentially meaningless. You do not want to hear the important points that I am making. Let me state them again and try to make it as blunt as I can, cause I am done with this.

1) We are all guests here - you have no rights, other than the right to not play.

When you play on SOE's server you are also their guest. That doesn't mean SOE handles out punishment unequally and decides when and where the rules apply. Otherwise it's a corrupt box. Public or private. Rules are created not to be broken under any circumstances. No exceptions. It doesn't matter how many accounts were caught doing it. The rules either have meaning or they don't. Apparently cheating doesn't matter to you much.

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2) You need to get over the idea that everything needs to be, can be or will be fair in life. Life is fundamentally unfair. Grow up. Get used to it. That doesn't mean you should simply accept every injustice, but you have to use good judgement and know how far you can push things. You are not using good judgement in this case or you don't have it. Let it go, you have already lost and your strident mantra that the devs are unfair is merely serving to stink up the boards at this point.

So you're admitting that development is not handing out punishment equally as they stated they would when they created the server. Everything you just posted here is an emotional argument. Not a logical one. Rules and punishments are put into place to keep order. To deter cheating, not encourage it. Why have laws if they can just be broken? Life isn't fair right? Your attempt at philosophy is comical at best. You're basically saying "Suck it up if you don't like it. The cheaters win."

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3) I reject the idea that Rogean and crew have been fundamentally unfair. You present some information you call facts, but I have no way to verify them and no way to know what you left out. The "rebuttal" from Rogean in another thread includes that statement that not all information used to judge a situation will always be publicly known. Since I trust him, I have to believe that either you are holding back info or there is stuff you don't know about the situation you are so incensed about.

What we publicly know is this

1) Cheating is supposed to = ban

2) Cheaters were not banned

3) Guild A leadership cheated. Guild A suffered raid suspension

4) Guild B leadership cheated. Guild B suffered no punishment.

This is not speculation, which you are engaging in. These are the bare bones facts that cannot be disputed. All of your speculating withers in the face of these basic facts.

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4) The people who make the server make the rules. They can decide if and when situations are such that an ammendment of normal punishments should be made. Though it is entirely within their right, they did not even change the rules - they just changed the punishment for the rules. Even our own judicial system gives judges leeway to do this. Them doing so does NOT make this a corrupt box. That is YOUR judgement, YOUR name calling and YOUR problem.

They made the rules previously and then changed them on the fly. Why make rules if you aren't going to enforce them? Sure, it's within their right, nobody is disputing that, but we sure as hell protest it when their reasoning behind the sudden change in rules is dubious at best. They had the exact opposite reaction to the batch of cheaters I'd thought they'd have. Frankly I was disappointed. I expected them to keep their word. They didn't here.

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5) I expect a certain degree of autocracy here, because that is exactly what it is, whether you like it of not. Inherent in the idea of autocracy is a degree of unfairness. I like this game implementation so much that I am willing to put up with that. It is the price of admission. So, even if Rogean and company were being repeatedly, unequivically unfair, I would STILL play here unless it reached the point where I just couldn't bear it. In that case, I would leave. I would no be so naive and irritating as to think I could get my way by inciting popular unrest.

If you're the one benefiting from it then I don't blame you. TR/IB have it made here. They are above the rules. Their guild leader was a developer. The way you try and rationalize this is frankly unbelievable. This is beyond a degree of unfairness. This is a double standard. Your comparison to an autocracy is incorrect. It's more Totalitarian, since one raiding guild (faction) apparently has more influence than all the others and is above the law.

G13 · #**174** 09-07-2011, 06:22 PM

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Originally Posted by booter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because you see everything on this server as TR vs TMO does not make it so. This thread has had a lot of great discussion, and your personal attacks and paranoia do nothing but edge it closer to RnF. By your logic, I could argue that you are trying to derail the thread to get it into the dead-end known as RnF so any discussion that doesn't fit your narrative disappears.

Hyperbole. You're completely ignoring every other guild on this server that is not TMO/TR that has spoken out against this ruling.

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Nice job with all of your generalizations about every member of TR, though. At least it makes your intentions transparent.

You're defending your guild whose leadership was caught using a 3rd party hack. Guild disband. Denounce the corruption and prove me wrong then.

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I'll re-iterate - the thread is not about what YOU want it to be about. The OP was clearly laid out, you either need to re-read it or admit to being intellectually dishonest and just using it as a soapbox.

The OP is about how HBB wants it to be about. This isn't cold war east germany. Many people disagree. Whether you can accept that or not is no problem of mine, but yours.

Enygmad · #**175** 09-07-2011, 06:32 PM

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Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Love,

Sworen

Ennoia · #**176** 09-07-2011, 06:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

my money.

NAO!

877-CASH-NOW

booter · #**177** 09-07-2011, 06:47 PM

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Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hyperbole. You're completely ignoring every other guild on this server that is not TMO/TR that has spoken out against this ruling.

I'm not ignoring anyone.

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Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're defending your guild whose leadership was caught using a 3rd party hack. Guild disband. Denounce the corruption and prove me wrong then.

I'm not defending anyone aside from Rogean/Nilbog. I haven't even explicitly stated whether or not I think the bans should be permanent because I am undecided. Again, you're generalizing and seeing things you want to see. You are under the assumption that everyone in TR wants to welcome Perun back, which is certainly not that case.

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Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The OP is about how HBB wants it to be about.

Thank you. Maybe you'll re-read what he said and stay on track instead of turning this thread into a crusade. (Hint: he says to make a new post for that, and use the proper channels)