We Are Supposed to Eat Animals !

[Csihar]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simple chemical response to a stimulus is a much different thing than a centralized nervous system perceiving pain.

The clickbait article is strongly implying the plants are 'feeling' something to trick those who don't know any better. It's just not true.

'twas sarcasm, my good man.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's to slaughter in Huston? ...and that is humbling?

You can buy anything in a city. Suckling pig for a smoker, and it was delicious. The blood and the screams. A sound and a fury.....

[Malk]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any of you ever slaughter your own food? It's humbling.

Actually yes, mainly chickens, lambs and pigs. If you're good enough, there's very few pain involved (yes, even for pigs).

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any of you ever slaughter your own food?

Nope, I get upset just fishing and tended to annoy my parents when I was little insisting we release the fish that I'd catch because "he looked sad." Needless to say I was only taken fishing a handful of times ^^

It's humbling.

This is my point. Be thankful for the sacrifice^^

[big_ole_jpn]

Originally Posted by entruil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

'A Rube Goldberg machine is a contraption, invention, device, or apparatus that is deliberately over-engineered to perform a simple task in a complicated fashion, generally including a chain reaction.'

am I misinterpretting "deliberately over-engineered"?...


I don't think we have valid claim to say one way or the other how the earth/evolution/creation breathes...

quoted the part i read up 2

you're right trees are not deliberately over-engineered because they're not deliberately engineered at all. butt single cells, and even most multicellular organisms, are nothing more than extremely complex chemical clockworks. Consciousness and the capacity for a subjective experience are emergent properties of a central nervous system; if you are claiming trees or plants whose response to stimuli are all mediated by clockwork chemical mechanisms incidentally evolved the ability to experience reality subjectively on some level beyond human understanding you are a stupid as shit hippie, meat eating f*ggot contrarian, or other anti intellectual piece of trash.

Before the CNS, there were self-replicating little bundles of chemical. a (intelligent) Dahmer type could light 6 billion of those on fire in a void and not get a lick of pleasure from the suffering generated because there is none. Do these retards sometimes get worried that their computer or car have secret interior monologues and feelings they don't know about?

The injun "everything has a spirit" thing is great and all cuz we should respect the earth, but i dont think they were literally saying that while making arrowheads from a stone that they were chipping brutally away at a conscious entity's body.

^not sure why i wrote all that, pretty sure nobody here actually believes this shit

[maskedmelon]

So, a bit of a tangent, since the moral argument is based on inflicting pain and has nothing to do with taking life or destructive behavior in general, what if we were to engineer animals incapable of feeling pain or numbe them. Would it be acceptable to eat them then? What about eating them alive?

Intuition tells us the last part is fucked up, but working from the argument for Veganism, there would be nothing wrong with it and it is the reason why many vegetarians have no qualms about eating certain shellfish.

[big_ole_jpn]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, a bit of a tangent, since the moral argument is based on inflicting pain and has nothing to do with taking life or destructive behavior in general, what if we were to engineer animals incapable of feeling pain or numbe them. Would it be acceptable to eat them then? What about eating them alive?

Intuition tells us the last part is fucked up, but working from the argument for Veganism, there would be nothing wrong with it and it is the reason why many vegetarians have no qualms about eating certain shellfish.

meat cultures are essentially this fully realized. And meat made this way is going to be way more expensive than just raising live animals probably for the extent of our lifetimes. Bigtime luxury item.

As for breeding lobotomized animals, please no. Don't need "lobotomized" human pleasureslaves.

[GradnerLives]

Originally Posted by big_ole_jpn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

meat cultures are essentially this fully realized. And meat made this way is going to be way more expensive than just raising live animals probably for the extent of our lifetimes. Bigtime luxury item.

As for breeding lobotomized animals, please no. Don't need "lobotomized" human pleasureslaves.

Exactly. Why synthesize the whole cow without feelings when all you need is the T-bone?

That said, "not in our lifetime"?

I mean maybe a perfectly synthesized kobe beef filet mignon with every possible texture and flavour indistinguishable from the original, sure. Not at a reasonable price within our lifetime.

Fakesteak with all of the same nutritional value (probably better) and a flavour/texture close enough to be negligible to the mass market will absolutely be available at a reasonable price within the next decade.

Most meat that's consumed is ground, processed and re-formed into something that only vaguely resembles the real deal anyways.

To answer the tangent though, it certainly muddies the water of the moral argument, but it doesn't eliminate it.

If you could create a pill that turns anyone into a sadomasochist and then give it to someone who would otherwise have an aversion to pain, just so that you could torture them for your own pleasure, that's still a problem even if they're begging you to do it, right?

[Saludeen]

Originally Posted by big_ole_jpn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

quoted the part i read up 2

you're right trees are not deliberately over-engineered because they're not deliberately engineered at all. butt single cells, and even most multicellular organisms, are nothing more than extremely complex chemical clockworks. Consciousness and the capacity for a subjective experience are emergent properties of a central nervous system; if you are claiming trees or plants whose response to stimuli are all mediated by clockwork chemical mechanisms incidentally evolved the ability to experience reality subjectively on some level beyond human understanding you are a stupid as shit hippie, meat eating f*ggot contrarian, or other anti intellectual piece of trash.

Before the CNS, there were self-replicating little bundles of chemical. a (intelligent) Dahmer type could light 6 billion of those on fire in a void and not get a lick of pleasure from the suffering generated because there is none. Do these retards sometimes get worried that their computer or car have secret interior monologues and feelings they don't know about?

The injun "everything has a spirit" thing is great and all cuz we should respect the earth, but i dont think they were literally saying that while making arrowheads from a stone that they were chipping brutally away at a conscious entity's body.

^not sure why i wrote all that, pretty sure nobody here actually believes this shit

If consciousness is an emergent property of mindless mechanics then everyone would have the same exact response to stimuli like programs / robots do, but we don't. Our consciousness is a significant threshold above what we can do with AI, not just a gradient. Meaning, robots are limited to "if > then". But we're a level above that. And to assume that you know the type of consciousness plants have is conjecture and means you have no base to be arrogant towards people who think they might be aware of more than we think. We also don't know the boundaries of consciousness so it could pervade all matter despite you an I having a barrier between our minds.

[big_ole_jpn]

Originally Posted by Saludeen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If consciousness is an emergent property of mindless mechanics then everyone would have the same exact response to stimuli like programs / robots do, but we don't.

really really stupid