Mage epic

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do play on Green, and just got my epic a couple weeks ago ... but I got my staff awhile back (when Castle was still pretty dominant in Hate, though not as much as you say they are now; Diddly was getting more kills than they were I think).

But my point remains: none of it is classic. In classic, no one had "Hate trackers", because no one ... well first of all, 99.9% of the players didn't even have an extra 45+ level character to leave up in Hate, let alone one with track ... but even if they did, they didn't know about anywhere in the zone that they could leave said character.

The mechanics of it being an FTE contested spawn are classic. Just because someone farms it isn't an issue. You're an odd individual honestly. Calling things "not classic" because someone has knowledge that they didn't back in 1999...like, we don't have one of those things in Men In Black to wipe everyone's memory dude

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Balimon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People didn't understand the spawn mechanic back then, Quill was a rare and mysterious mob. The benefits of 25 years of wikis, and of course the devs spilling the beans on how it worked sure help today.

Correct. Quillmane was such a pain in the ass back then because no one knew the PHs, the paths of the PHs through the zone, etc. It took quite awhile as well as data mining to figure that out. Quillmane is so easy today because we know all the PHs and where they wander to, so with a tracker you can get it done easily.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The mechanics of it being an FTE contested spawn are classic. Just because someone farms it isn't an issue. You're an odd individual honestly. Calling things "not classic" because someone has knowledge that they didn't back in 1999...like, we don't have one of those things in Men In Black to wipe everyone's memory dude

There's an obvious difference between a guild (or "farm crew" group) porting up to Hate to check on a mob periodically (ie. what happened between '99-'01) vs. having a single person sit up there for hours on end (perfectly safe), watching for the moment the mob spawns. The latter is like combat bind wounds: it has only ever happened on P99, never in classic.

It's clear from your post history you are neither dumb, nor do you lack understanding of this game; I'm puzzled on why you're having such difficulty with this distinction I'm making [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Bagavan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty interesting allegation there Loramin. What evidence do you have to back that up?? Two boxing isn't allowed on this server and rezzing with a pocket cleric isn't either.

I literally saw it happen in front of my eyes, many times during 6 months of tracking. I was often talking to the person behind both boxes as they did it ... and very often it was me they were rezzing! Sometimes it was because they'd gotten our tracker killed, but sometimes they did it even when it wasn't their fault at all.

For the record, they didn't 2-box every rez. Usually they would try to camp out the Enchanter first to pretend they were switching to the Cleric ... but at times (and after 6 months, I saw many of these) they wouldn't bother with the charade. It was pretty clear it was 2-boxing because of how immediately the Cleric came online (there was no time to text a human and ask them to get on).

I maintain both that a Magi farmer (I still have yet to name a name) is a regular 2-box violator ... and that said person was pretty much always considerate to me, even to the point of using their 2-boxing to help me. Maybe they were a genuinely nice person, or maybe they just didn't want to attract GM attention; I can only report what I saw.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I maintain both that a Magi farmer (I still have yet to name a name) is a regular 2-box violator

Actually I should really say "was" not "is" there; again this is all based on a 6-month period in 2023, and for all I know there are completely different farmers up there now.

[Kroshk]

For what it's worth, I looked back through your petitions and I see 0 times where you petitioned boxers, so if you are as convinced as you say you are that they were boxing than you are just as complicit if they were boxing to rez you.

Please petition players who you think are boxing, RMTing, breaking the rules in whatever way you think. I promise you we do care, and I promise you people do get caught.

[loramin]

Going for the widely respected RnF triple-post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just to add to what I said to CD288: I fully understand that Hate had safe spots in classic ...

Originally Posted by Balimon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To your point, there were safe spots in classic in Plate of Hate, all the way through the revamp. I didn't raid pre-Kunark, I started playing in Sept. of 99', and I finally got up to hate in late Kunark and all through Velious.

My argument is not "classic mechanics = no safe spots".

My argument is "P99 would be a better emulator of classic EverQuest if people had to do what they did in '99 for the most important quest in the game to Magicians, instead of a competely different thing they never did back then".

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Kroshk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For what it's worth, I looked back through your petitions and I see 0 times where you petitioned boxers, so if you are as convinced as you say you are that they were boxing than you are just as complicit if they were boxing to rez you.

Please petition players who you think are boxing, RMTing, breaking the rules in whatever way you think. I promise you we do care, and I promise you people do get caught.

As I outlined above, there is one path to an epic on this box if you're not in Castle. You can say "trust me it will all work out fine" ... but by asking me to report an established Hate farmer, you're essentially asking me to risk my one chance at an epic. I was between a rock and a hard place: this has clearly been going on for a long time on the server, and I can't read the staff's mind: how am I to know the Hate farmer isn't really Nilbog's IRL bestie?

I have a great deal of love for this server, and I will happily report 2-boxers under most conditions. But, at the time (again, this was all last year), I just wasn't willing to risk never getting an epic for my Mage (and because I genuinely liked my guild and didn't want to lose all my DKP, I didn't want to switch to Castle, even though they seem like a great guild).

I hope you can respect that, but if you feel the need to punish me I'll understand. Even so, I still maintain that letting one player and one guild gatekeep an epic quest, by doing things never (or almost never) done between '99-'01, makes P99 less classic.

[Kroshk]

I'm so confused. I know this thread is in RNF now so it's hardly serious, but still.

You believe that there are two paths to a mage epic, one is through a player who farms hate, sometimes boxes and might be Nilbog' IRL bestie?

The other path was through Castle, the only other guild that kills Magi.

Out of the last 40 magis:
Castle 11
Kingdom 8
Safe Space 4
Good Guys 2
Linerate 2
Drift 1

Hate Farmers 13

5 different hate farmers plus Castle only make up 25 out of the last 40 magi kills, hardly seems like gatekeeping. And as I've said before, the hate farmers kill the majority of the other hate minis, which causes more Magis to spawn for everyone. Guilds won't port up to kill a random Ashenbone, but hate farmers will.

Guilds are going to have different preferences for targets, if a guild is prioritizing Hate they are doing that while sacrificing something else.

As far as the Hate farmers, my favorite question to ask people complaining about them is why are you whining so much about getting beat by one guy. Have you ever considered trying to farm your own epic piece? Have you ever considered trying to talk to other people who also want a mage epic and forming your own farm crew?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Kroshk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm so confused

I tried to be clear that this all occurred during a six month period in 2023:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do play on Green, and just got my epic a couple weeks ago ... but I got my staff awhile back (when Castle was still pretty dominant in Hate, though not as much as you say they are now; Diddly was getting more kills than they were I think).

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(again, this was all last year)

So

Originally Posted by Kroshk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Out of the last 40 magis:

Isn't relevant. You're welcome to dig up the stats on Magi kills on early 2023 (I'd honestly be curious to see them) ... but I can tell you for a fact (because I was up in Hate tracking most days) that the majority of staffs went to Castle/farmers.

Kingdom got 4 Magi during that period for instance (maybe 5? I think someone else might have tracked one ... it's been awhile?). We got zero staves. Obviously, RNG is a factor, guild priorities are a factor, etc. ... I'm not denying any of that.

But what I keep repeating ... and what no one seems to want to address ... is that no one (or virtually no one) was tracking Hate in '99-'01. 99% of players didn't have two accounts. Less than 10% of those that did had Rangers. At least 50% of those players didn't have internet connections that lasted that long ... and only some small percentage of those had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate.

Back in classic EQ there was no single human staring at their computer waiting for Magi to pop; it simply never happened. But it's the default here: it's how virtually every Mage on the entire server (excluding Castle ones who get it on quakes) get their epic.

Virtually every mage on the server is doing something 100% unclassic for their most important quest ... all I'm saying is, that contrasts sharply with the "Classic EverQuest" in the logo in the upper-left.

[Balimon]

Loramin I don't understand why you think we should play the way we did back in '99? With modern internet connections and all knowledge available emergent gameplay is going to happen. People being able to solo/duo farm raid zones is something that is totally doable now. I don't understand what it is that you want? Do you want everyone to have to port up with groups and raid the old fashioned way?

I'd also like to point out that I was able to get two Earth staves to drop in a 9 month period (sept '21-june '22) for my guild using the methods I outline in my guide and on the Magi wiki page. I ran weekly Hate raids for the guild, the trick is to run them on weekends and Wednesdays. People weren't clearing the PH's as much back then, so I made sure that we did at least once a week. I also had positive interactions with the farm crews, even if I don't like how they operate. My point is that there are multiple ways to get one and as Kroshk so awesomely posted, no one has a monopoly on Magi.