Raid Compromise Proposal

[Thulack]

Originally Posted by Tirion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're missing the point entirely of raiding in Everquest. Everquest is an incredibly easy game, and killing raid mobs is fairly trivial after you've done it a couple times. The only thing that keeps it fun in the long run is competition. Killing raid mobs is stupid-easy unless you have the time constraints that competition brings, making you have to make fast imperfect decisions.

Your proposal is the equivalent of proposing that the top NBA teams all agree to just take turns letting each other win every other game. It takes all the game out of it.

Yes, EQ is flawed and competition brings a lot of bullshit, but without it the game is nothing.

I enjoyed EQ for 11 years without racing for a single mob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] and yes i raided for 9+ of them

[Tirion]

Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I enjoyed EQ for 11 years without racing for a single mob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] and yes i raided for 9+ of them

Because back then new unknown content was regularly being released, which people could explore and figure out. On a legacy server like this, the raid guilds know exactly how to beat everything, and without competition it's like clockwork.

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Want the token reminder about BDA taking a dump on the old Class R rotation now or later?

lol

Rotations don't work here, the past is proof.. someone is going to end it sooner or later.

It worked for over a year just fine.

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Want the token reminder about BDA taking a dump on the old Class R rotation now or later?

lol

Rotations don't work here, the past is proof.. someone is going to end it sooner or later.

Rotations work fine so long as you don't invite BDA to be part of them.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Argh]

The problem with the rotation was always Taken and Divinity, not BDA.

[Laugher]

As someone who thought the rotation was a good idea going in I was not surprised to see it go; I was surprised in fact that it had lasted as long as it did. At this point that fact leaves me with few options to push here on the subject except that it you'd like a change there's always:

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[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with the rotation was always Taken and Divinity, not BDA.

Yeah Anichek and Chest went to bat for the smaller guilds for most the rotation's life. It wasn't until some of the smaller guilds started to take advantage (not all of them)/plus that Nilbog/Rogean said there wouldn't be a class system for Velious, that it started to break down.

[xexbis0]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with the rotation was always Taken and Divinity, not BDA.

I'm not going to be one of those people that blames BDA for the rotational downfall. They were simply the guild that finally pulled the trigger after going to bat for the little guys who just constantly wanted more more more without giving an inch in return. I don't blame them. At some point, you would at least hope that your efforts are appreciated by showing a little effort yourself to meet in the middle on issues.

The Main Issue
These mobs that spawned in off hour times eventually rotated into an FFA mob which would not move the ticker. Plenty of the rotational guilds had very specific time slots which they could kill these mobs, and some of these windows were particularly small. Taken and BDA specifically had to burn the midnight oil (granted this was well before where both guilds were later after the collapse in terms of strength) to play goalkeeper and ensure TMO and IB didn't come rolling in and smash the mob, resulting in the rotation not moving at all. The little guilds refused to move back spots as a result of their failure of not having the line move even when Taken/BDA/Divinity couldn't muster the 3am force on short notice not knowing the mob would end up needing the help. I'm sure you can see the frustration here. This automatically moved whichever guild to the back of the line. These 3 guilds were not enjoying the fun, stress-free life the rotation should have bought them. That's where the frustration truly was born.

Along Came Little Jimmy
More and more guilds kept popping up hoping to throw their name into the mix. Ideas were brought forth for barriers of entry to make it into the rotation. Some guilds QQd and swore to make lives harder claiming injustice if they didn't immediately get what they wanted, sometimes just plain sniping lesser mobs causing what should have been a relaxing track session due to having an X hour window to kill a mob into "we have to make sure we don't let them beat us to mobs". Again, no penalty in place to get outraced.

There's More? Of Course There Is
Guilds started allying to kill their class R mobs because they couldn't handle it on their own. THIS really was imo the final nail in the coffin. They refused to share joint spots on the rotation and rotate as a unit. After all, these guilds holding one spot couldn't even kill the raid mobs solo. At this point, BDA made the decision to say "fuck you guys, I've gone to bat for you over and over and over without seeing a thing given in return." Taken and Divinity were already fed the F up with all of it. BDA just signed off on "we've had enough of this crap going on a year already, tear it down." Plenty of time was given to the smaller guilds throughout the entire time period to come to a more equitable solution that didn't involve them gaming the rotation. No progress was ever close to being made.

Class R History Ladies n Gents

TL-DR - it's fun to say the big 3 were big meanies, but if you think the 2 class Cs would have had 1/8 the patience those guilds had you're loco. A year. That's how long they had to come up with better ideas, they wouldn't even take the barely change anything ones. The downfall of the R-otation was the little guilds calling the bigger guilds bluff that we wouldn't do anything about it.

[Whirled]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do enjoy the days of having a raid scheduled at 6:30PM and we would raid from then to about 10-11PM, kill some mobs and camp out. Was awesome.

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This game is also about cooperation; that's why we actually have a community here.

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It worked for over a year just fine.

Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not going to be one of those people that blames BDA for the rotational downfall. They were simply the guild that finally pulled the trigger after going to bat for the little guys who just constantly wanted more more more without giving an inch in return. I don't blame them. At some point, you would at least hope that your efforts are appreciated by showing a little effort yourself to meet in the middle on issues.

The Main Issue
These mobs that spawned in off hour times eventually rotated into an FFA mob which would not move the ticker. Plenty of the rotational guilds had very specific time slots which they could kill these mobs, and some of these windows were particularly small. Taken and BDA specifically had to burn the midnight oil (granted this was well before where both guilds were later after the collapse in terms of strength) to play goalkeeper and ensure TMO and IB didn't come rolling in and smash the mob, resulting in the rotation not moving at all. The little guilds refused to move back spots as a result of their failure of not having the line move even when Taken/BDA/Divinity couldn't muster the 3am force on short notice not knowing the mob would end up needing the help. I'm sure you can see the frustration here. This automatically moved whichever guild to the back of the line. These 3 guilds were not enjoying the fun, stress-free life the rotation should have bought them. That's where the frustration truly was born.

Along Came Little Jimmy
More and more guilds kept popping up hoping to throw their name into the mix. Ideas were brought forth for barriers of entry to make it into the rotation. Some guilds QQd and swore to make lives harder claiming injustice if they didn't immediately get what they wanted, sometimes just plain sniping lesser mobs causing what should have been a relaxing track session due to having an X hour window to kill a mob into "we have to make sure we don't let them beat us to mobs". Again, no penalty in place to get outraced.

There's More? Of Course There Is
Guilds started allying to kill their class R mobs because they couldn't handle it on their own. THIS really was imo the final nail in the coffin. They refused to share joint spots on the rotation and rotate as a unit. After all, these guilds holding one spot couldn't even kill the raid mobs solo. At this point, BDA made the decision to say "fuck you guys, I've gone to bat for you over and over and over without seeing a thing given in return." Taken and Divinity were already fed the F up with all of it. BDA just signed off on "we've had enough of this crap going on a year already, tear it down." Plenty of time was given to the smaller guilds throughout the entire time period to come to a more equitable solution that didn't involve them gaming the rotation. No progress was ever close to being made.

Class R History Ladies n Gents

TL-DR - it's fun to say the big 3 were big meanies, but if you think the 2 class Cs would have had 1/8 the patience those guilds had you're loco. A year. That's how long they had to come up with better ideas, they wouldn't even take the barely change anything ones. The downfall of the R-otation was the little guilds calling the bigger guilds bluff that we wouldn't do anything about it.

First off, I do not claim to be a know-it-all about EQ or raiding BUT there are LOTS of people playing this game that would enjoy to play this game, see content that they may not have done before & enjoy it. No lawyer-quest, no secret deals in the shadows & certainly not "18 hours a day/everyday". Suggesting EQ is like basket ball is apples to oranges. If you try to use that analogy than most of the players in your basketball game are not allowed to make 3 point shots. Which makes no sense but hey I'm no basket ball star either.

Coming to an agreement for all players to even have a fair shot is where the discussions should begin. Not how some certain guild or players can hold onto content for the longest or block as many as possible.

Lastly, being generous does not consist of wanting something in return. Disagree? Matthew 6:3 <= if you forgot*

I would be interested to know the average age of most players, because if it's as old as I THINK it is, then this place would be a great experiment for anyone doing psych degree work. I hope anyone reading this takes these words well & bares no hostility. This should be more of a chance to attempt to make things better as a community, as all would like to see things progress forward & not stagnate.
As many have said, be the change you wish to see.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Hey I know we should group the guilds into some sort of class system and divvy up the raid mobs that way