Wizard vs Mage

[diplo]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, Loraen has solod king, so obviously it is possible for an enchanter and a wizard (or any other class, for that matter) to duo it... even if enchanter+wizard would be a harder duo for king than something like enchanter + cle/sham/nec/whatever.

i haven't seen loraen solo the king (but i believe it), but i'm sure about 75% of it was luck that slow landed after tash. malo+sini will help a lot in that particular situation, can't see a wizzy doin anything to help in that situation. you have no margin for error with a wizzy. if charm breaks on a chanter's pet, least my pet can tank while he recharms. if you overnuke on a wizard, you gain aggro and you die or you can just sit there and watch and get some afk loot. wizard is the easier class to play. you sit and hit a nuke button (most wizzys) in group situations because most wizzy's won't take the time to stun (probably cause they're lazy) - i'm sure if a group is sitting there and waiting for you to hopefully wipe on king, a chanter would take a mage over a wizard 100% of the time (though sham would be most preferred).


yea although mage's can just send a pet on a mob, i can DS, malo and can do everything a wizard can except quad kite.

if a mage can't find a group, you can solo, you can farm a majority of items on ez mode.

plus, mage's are the least dependent for gear. if you don't have over 200 int for a wizzy, you won't quad kite properly, can't say the same for a mage here.

but to OP, it all depends on what you're looking to do. i have the most fun killing targets and doing camps that are challenging and require a lot of strategy, and you have many more options as a mage. if you just want to have a breezy time exping in groups, quad kiting and porting around, be a wizard, but one thing for certain is you can do a lot more FUN stuff as a mage, epic pet or not.

[SCB]

As a high level enchanter, my 2cp is that I'd prefer to duo with the following classes in order:
- Druid
- Necro
- Wizard
- Mage
- Shaman

Reason why is that Ench/Druid can crush damn near anything, and druid Snare/Regen/Thorns makes charming mind-numbingly easy. I'd take a Druid down and do Skyfire mobs all day long for silly exp and chance at CotH dropping. Mages/Shaman's don't bring a lot to the party, and Mages break root like nothing. I'd still group with either any day, but would prefer classes higher on that list.

As for Wiz/Mage it all comes down to what you want to do. It's certainly possible to go a little less mana efficient but drop rank to a lower level nuke that you can use more often in groups, or focus on chainstuns and whatnot as a Wiz. It's absolutely possible to quickly and easily solo with either class. I've seen Mages make or break high level groups with great plays too. It all depends on your playstyle.

Strictly for duoing purposes, I'd go with Wiz over a Mage for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is on-demand Teleport. Kit synergy is higher with a Wiz unless you're doing something insane like 2-manning deep Seb or HS (which, if you're doing that, bring a Necro instead)

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by SCB [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman's don't bring a lot to the party

Hahaha. I had a good laugh when I read this.

[Tenlaar]

Inorite, how could the two most powerful solo classes combined be good?!

[Tecmos Deception]

On topic again though, the bottom line for the OP is that any of the int or wis casters will work just fine as a duo with an enchanter. Mage and wiz are probably the weakest overall options, but even then you will level up just fine (and even duo just about anything at 60). Cleric and shaman are certainly the strongest combos with an enchanter, but neither are really the "caster with some nuking power" than the OP is looking for.

OP did mention he was concerned with being bored by the limited playstyle of a wizard, though, and imo a mage isn't a lot different than that since you have a pet to manage + nukes, but you lack the stun and root options a wizard has to sometimes help keep him busy. With a chanter around to clarity, wiz or mage wouldn't be as slow as they are solo, but if you are looking for more to keep you busy then definitely consider a necro, druid, or sham. I'd say any of them will stay busy in that pairing, plus they can all solo if you fancy that. Cleric is ridiculously awesome with a chanter, but a lot like a wizard in that you have stuns and roots, just instead of nuking you are healing.

[falkun]

And if you ever get bored of the duo, healer (SHM/DRU/CLR) + ENC will get you more groups than WIZ/MAG+ENC.

[Splorf22]

So in my opinion the top 3 duos for an enchanter are Shaman, Cleric, and Enchanter and it depends on the situation which is actually best (shaman for ultra boss mobs where you can stack -100MR and both chain slow; enchanter for fast killing with two charmed pets; clerics are almost as good at both). If there are undead around, then the Necromancer also falls into this category (two charmed pets, a few heals, a bit of crowd control).

Magician is slightly worse but still very good (malo is nice, the pet can tank on charm breaks) but they have no way to heal you so you can't be lazy.

Finally you have Druid, Paladin, and no-undead-Necromancer. Basically they can heal you a bit and throw some roots and nukes around.

An enchanter can duo with any class effectively, even pure melee, but I think Tecmos is just trolling you on Wizard being a better duo than Magician :P And I have no idea what SCB is talking about. Druid/Enchanter is not bad at all of course, but its not close to Shaman/Enchanter unless you like to get ported around.

[SCB]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hahaha. I had a good laugh when I read this.

I meant party as in beer and chips, not party as in group of people. Everyone knows shammies are awesome in groups. When duoing, I prefer druids over shamans for that sweet sweet damage shield, especially since when soloing we don't really care if our pet dies, since it's basically just free xp and we grab another anyway, so Slow loses a bit of value.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An enchanter can duo with any class effectively, even pure melee, but I think Tecmos is just trolling you on Wizard being a better duo than Magician :P And I have no idea what SCB is talking about. Druid/Enchanter is not bad at all of course, but its not close to Shaman/Enchanter unless you like to get ported around.

I feel like we're discussing accomplishing very different things. For grinding mobs/exp at every level and stage of the game, I find druid vastly superior to shaman for the reasons above. Obviously if you're going for high-value, very-difficult targets, you'll pick differently.

[Tecmos Deception]

I wasn't trolling! Maybe my lack of experience with epic mages is the catching point, but I would rather solo than group with a mage. Every damn pet procs a nuke or a root and mages love giving their pets swords with even more procs. The last thing I want to deal with when I'm farming something is root breaks every 5 seconds. Maybe if the fight is half over already or the chanter makes liberal use of mem blur, the magician pet will keep aggro on a charm break... but I'm skeptical. I'd much prefer a second rooter+stunner with lame sustained damage+great burst.


And SCB, shamans are awesome at everything, not just grouping. Maybe 1-59 shaman and druid are pretty interchangeable when paired with a chanter, though I still would have to think having a shaman doing malo, slow, plus buffs and heals would be preferable to having a druid who can snare, DS, buff, and heal. And then at 60 it's no contest.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you would let a charmed pet die when duoing, when you could instead give it proccing weapons and a bunch of haste and other buffs and then keep it alive. The extra mobs you'd kill with that monster of a pet is going to get you wayyyy more xp than you'd get from finishing off a nearly-dead ex-pet every few kills.

[SCB]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And SCB, shamans are awesome at everything, not just grouping. Maybe 1-59 shaman and druid are pretty interchangeable when paired with a chanter, though I still would have to think having a shaman doing malo, slow, plus buffs and heals would be preferable to having a druid who can snare, DS, buff, and heal. And then at 60 it's no contest.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you would let a charmed pet die when duoing, when you could instead give it proccing weapons and a bunch of haste and other buffs and then keep it alive. The extra mobs you'd kill with that monster of a pet is going to get you wayyyy more xp than you'd get from finishing off a nearly-dead ex-pet every few kills.

Again, it's hardly like I'm bashing Shamans. I just don't think "who's best at 60" is at all the question here, since the guy is talking about leveling with a buddy.

I wouldn't necessarily advocate for letting the pet die, but I don't see a reason to value shammy slow over ench slow in a duoing situation because if worst comes to worst you're not losing anything of real value. It's not like a druid can't keep up a pet just fine for the few seconds it may be in danger, and you can always just have the pet heal itself if you really need it at 100% between pulls. Hell, if youre in the right zones, a druid can be right there charming with you, so you gain the theoretical benefit of two enchanters charming, too.

You seem to be focusing on the weirdest specifics, rather than my general point.

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't trolling! Maybe my lack of experience with epic mages is the catching point, but I would rather solo than group with a mage. Every damn pet procs a nuke or a root and mages love giving their pets swords with even more procs. Maybe if the fight is half over already or the chanter makes liberal use of mem blur, the magician pet will keep aggro on a charm break... but I'm skeptical. I'd much prefer a second rooter+stunner with lame sustained damage+great burst.

This more sort of general thought process is where I'm coming from. In general, I'd prefer one class to another, and it has nothing to do with specific camps or level ranges.