Mithril 2h sword vs Baton of faith

[Bantam 1]

Originally Posted by kunark_lizzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

haven't looked at haste in a looong time but, i remember item haste affecting damage per hit, not swing delay (swing delay was from spell haste). am i way off with this?

Bit off yeah.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by Sazzabi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is some confusion on how haste works. Even without a haste item the Baton is much much better.

For the Mith 2hander 100% haste would give half delay (20), not 0 delay,
50% haste would give a delay of 30.

31% haste gives a delay of 33.8

A 30/40 weapon will outdamage a 21/33.8 weapon significantly at all levels after lvl 19.

What?
100% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a 20 delay weapon.
50% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a ~27 (26.667) delay weapon.
31% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a ~31 (30.534) delay weapon

The fuck did you come up with those numbers?

Originally Posted by kunark_lizzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

haven't looked at haste in a looong time but, i remember item haste affecting damage per hit, not swing delay (swing delay was from spell haste). am i way off with this?

You can argue that haste has no direct effect on delay but increases your number of swings (and as a result lowers your delay accordingly).

[Sazzabi]

Originally Posted by Lorraine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What?
100% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a 20 delay weapon.
50% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a ~27 (26.667) delay weapon.
31% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a ~31 (30.534) delay weapon

The fuck did you come up with those numbers?

On a 40 delay weapon the delay can be anywhere between 40 (0% haste) and 20 (100% haste).

The delay can vary 20 depending on haste. Multiply the %haste by the value it can vary to get the delay decrease.

100% haste = 1.0 x 20 = 20 delay less (20 adjusted delay)
50% haste = 0.50 x 20 = 10 delay less (30 adjusted delay)
31% haste = 0.31 x 20 = 6.2 delay less (33.8 adjusted delay)
0% haste = 0.00 x 20 = 0 delay less (40 adjusted delay)

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by Sazzabi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On a 40 delay weapon the delay can be anywhere between 40 (0% haste) and 20 (100% haste).

The delay can vary 20 depending on haste. Multiply the %haste by the value it can vary to get the delay decrease.

100% haste = 1.0 x 20 = 20 delay less (20 adjusted delay)
50% haste = 0.50 x 20 = 10 delay less (30 adjusted delay)
31% haste = 0.31 x 20 = 6.2 delay less (33.8 adjusted delay)
0% haste = 0.00 x 20 = 0 delay less (40 adjusted delay)

Haste is measured in Rate of Attack Increase, NOT Delay Decrease.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=998

Spell Icon Haste
Description

1: Increase Attack Speed by 2% (L1) to 50% (L49)

Details Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View
Mana: 0 Casting Time: Instant
Recast Time: 0 Fizzle Time: 0
Range: 0 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Interruptable: Yes
Short Buff Box: Yes Target Type: Self
Spell Type: Beneficial Category: NPC
Source: Live 07/15
Messages

Cast on you: You feel your heart begin to race.
Cast on other: Soandso begins to move faster.
Effect Fades: Your speed returns to normal.

Game Description

Grants speed to your arms, increasing your rate of attack.^0


How does that work?
Let's assume your RoA is 10 swings per minute. You equip an item that says "Haste" and now you have 12 swings per minute.
10/12 = 1.2 = 20% hasted.

10 Swings per Minute means you swing once every 6 seconds, so your weapon has a 60 delay. Now you swing 12 times per minute, making your weapon a 50 delay.

If we use "your" formula, your "new" delay should be:
0.2 x 30 = 6 delay less = 54.

Like I said, your numbers don't add up.
Skipping school was a bad idea.

[slow2]

Sooo....

They are both 40 delay. Thats an attack every 4 seconds.

BoF = 15 apm
MM = 15 + (15x31%) = 19.65 apm

i believe the formula for damage was something like: 2x weapon dmg + delay bonus.

So baton is 60 + 3(at level 30), whereas MM would be 42+3.

63 x 15 = 945
45 x 19.65 = 884.25

So baton does roughly 60 damage a minute more than MM. IS this correct?

[Sazzabi]

Originally Posted by Lorraine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does that work?
Let's assume your RoA is 10 swings per minute. You equip an item that says "Haste" and now you have 12 swings per minute.
10/12 = 1.2 = 20% hasted.

10 Swings per Minute means you swing once every 6 seconds, so your weapon has a 60 delay. Now you swing 12 times per minute, making your weapon a 50 delay.

If we use "your" formula, your "new" delay should be:
0.2 x 30 = 6 delay less = 54.

I see, thanks for the nice explanation. I thought haste and delay would scale from 0 to 100% haste together but I can see why they don't.

[Colgate]

delay / (1 + haste)

haste is a percentage, so for example mith 2hander is 31% haste with 40 delay, it would be

40 / (1 + 0.31) = 30.534

21/31 = 0.677
30/40 = 0.75

i don't see any situation in which the baton of faith isn't the superior choice

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i don't see any situation in which the baton of faith isn't the superior choice

I am quite confident that the scumsuckers* selling M2H for more than double the price of BoF feel that falling for their scam is actually the better choice, regardless the fact that the BoF is a far superior weapon.


(*) If NPCs can call me a scumsucker in-game, then I'm quite comfortable calling these people scumsuckers in-forum. Sorry if that ruffles your panties.

[Sazzabi]

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

delay / (1 + haste)

haste is a percentage, so for example mith 2hander is 31% haste with 40 delay, it would be

40 / (1 + 0.31) = 30.534

21/31 = 0.677
30/40 = 0.75

i don't see any situation in which the baton of faith isn't the superior choice

It is because of the damage bonus being applied more that the Mith is better (about 5% more dps at 60), but it only becomes better after around level 52. Before that the Baton is better.

[Colgate]

by the time you're level 52 you should have acquired at least some sort of haste item which would make baton of faith MUCH better

only rationale i can see for mith 2 hander costing more is for rogue epic