bard duo - necro, enchanter, wizard?

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For some reason, the only downside of this compared to an enchanter is, I think and could be wrong, but you can't twitch a bard (or maybe clarity doesn't work on a bard... idk, for some reason I'm thinking one of these is right). If necros can, then there is no downside to choosing a necro over an enchanter as a duo partner really.

You cannot twitch bards, but why would you need to? The only song bards use with any regularity that depends on mana is charm, which lasts 18 seconds. I will say I thoroughly enjoyed duoing in HS with a necro, enchanter is a bit more universal than a necro, but you might miss the healing and enc+bard will step on each other's toes more than bard+nec.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You cannot twitch bards, but why would you need to? The only song bards use with any regularity that depends on mana is charm, which lasts 18 seconds. I will say I thoroughly enjoyed duoing in HS with a necro, enchanter is a bit more universal than a necro, but you might miss the healing and enc+bard will step on each other's toes more than bard+nec.

Never legit needed to, but I figured I would try to find some downside.

[Zyn]

This is an interesting thread.

My friend plays a high level bard, would be fun to try and duo with him later when/if I level up my necromancer.

Has anyone tried this combo, and how did it work? It seems like every post on here is theoretical.

[Wrench]

Originally Posted by Zyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Has anyone tried this combo, and how did it work? It seems like every post on here is theoretical.

falkun plays a high level bard, autotune played a high level necro

these aint theoretical posts

[indiscriminate_hater]

Originally Posted by Estolcles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know that you can't duo unless you're playing with someone else, right?

The way you're coming off as describing this is as if you're thinking about Boxing, which is a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig no-no.

the way he described it was "playing as a duo." it's funny how your mind automatically went to boxing, though.

for the record, he'll be playing with me.

[falkun]

What will you guys be going after in particular, since the OP stated "end-game purposes only, not leveling"? As a bard+necro, you'll be better suited to go after undead targets (HS, LGuk farming, possibly Seb crypt), but you should be able to root+rot anything that doesn't summon. I don't know if necro healing could keep a bard up while he tanks something that does summon, but slow and moving out of melee between summons while rooted could be viable.

[indiscriminate_hater]

we're just going to try to take down the buffest mobs we can. we're also looking ahead to velious -- farming in places like siren's grotto, velk's, etc.

i figure if an enchanter can solo most high-level stuff by itself with some luck, then having a bard pumping mana and hp can't hurt. however, a necro just sounds more fun to both of us so he's probably going in that direction

[Splorf22]

I had to think about this for a few minutes, but IMO the enchanter has a huge edge. Let's consider a sample fight: the myconid spore king (ignoring for the moment the lack of invis pulls). He hits for 290 (lets call that 100 dps) and has 15000HP.

Bard/Nec: If we generously assume the bard lands slow on the first try, that's 68 dps slowed. The bard/nec team will regenerate 125+35 = 160hp/tick, for a net drain of 40 dps. If we assume the bard has some badass gear, 2400HP/40 dps = 60 seconds till death, which would require over 200 dps. Now maybe the necro pet can tank here and there if it has stun whips, but bards generate a lot of aggro, and the initial assumption of the king starting off slowed is very generous. Verdict: fail

Bard/Enc: The enc raptures the king and gets him slowed immediately (especially if occlusion of sound is on the menu). With 70% slow, the king will only manage 30 dps. The bard/enc team regenerates (40*2+35) 115 hp/tick with continuous bedlam heals, for a net drain of 10 hp/sec. Since the bard starts with 3500 hp with Runes, that's at least 5 minutes (conditional on a reslow of course, but). 15000/300 = 50 dps. Verdict: should win even with an animation; easy victory with a charmed pet

Conclusion: I like the necro class in principle, but their lack of an MR debuff and slow really hurts. Tell your friend to play a shaman.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had to think about this for a few minutes, but IMO the enchanter has a huge edge. Let's consider a sample fight: the myconid spore king (ignoring for the moment the lack of invis pulls). He hits for 290 (lets call that 100 dps) and has 15000HP.

Bard/Nec: If we generously assume the bard lands slow on the first try, that's 68 dps slowed. The bard/nec team will regenerate 125+35 = 160hp/tick, for a net drain of 40 dps. If we assume the bard has some badass gear, 2400HP/40 dps = 60 seconds till death, which would require over 200 dps. Now maybe the necro pet can tank here and there if it has stun whips, but bards generate a lot of aggro, and the initial assumption of the king starting off slowed is very generous. Verdict: fail

Bard/Enc: The enc raptures the king and gets him slowed immediately (especially if occlusion of sound is on the menu). With 70% slow, the king will only manage 30 dps. The bard/enc team regenerates (40*2+35) 115 hp/tick with continuous bedlam heals, for a net drain of 10 hp/sec. Since the bard starts with 3500 hp with Runes, that's at least 5 minutes (conditional on a reslow of course, but). 15000/300 = 50 dps. Verdict: should win even with an animation; easy victory with a charmed pet

Conclusion: I like the necro class in principle, but their lack of an MR debuff and slow really hurts. Tell your friend to play a shaman.

There are other tactics that could be used on something like the King fight, for both enchanter/necro with a bard. However, I would not want to go in and attempt to seriously farm the king with just bard/nec or bard/enc in all honesty. He is one of the ones that it's better to set up something serious, least you slip up and die (especially if someone snipes him before you can get back and they snag a fungi).

Now, if you're going to test waters and just try to see what you can take down strictly as a duo then it really doesn't matter which class you choose.

I, nor anyone worth a damn, can come here and tell you that a necro is toe to toe more powerful than an enchanter when it comes to duos. However, what a necro lacks in raw power, he more than makes up for in utilities (the main thing being corpse retrieval). Corpse Retrieval may not seem like a big deal to most, but when you are having to snag corpses out of the bottom of a dungeon in the middle of the night because you goofed off or slipped, you're going to be happy you have that necro utility.

The way I see it.

Necro utility far out weighs enchanter utility to the point that it doesn't matter that the necro is weaker in raw power. This is strictly speaking for bard/nec or bard/enc as some duos enchanters will always be the better choice... like with clerics.

Ultimately it will greatly depend on the person who is playing the class. If you think you are going to do well with a bard that only knows how to run circles for xp and a necro who only knows fear kiting... you're not going to go very damn far at all.

[Splorf22]

If it wasn't for the WC cap I'd be a lot more inclined to agree with that. Anyway I think regardless of what his friend picks they should find a shaman. Bard+Caster just isn't very resilient.