Collectivism vs Individualism

[Potus]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
"Mithaniel Marrx, save me from the Teams PvP Bourgeoisie!" -- Nihilum, protectors of the "community"

[heartbrand]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The idea that this was a collective community project about Everquest players and not a project about individual demands has now taken an obvious turn.

I am not sure where project leaders thought it would be a good idea to appease these individual demands but given some time to consider the whole picture do you really think a "teams" server will improve Project 1999 PVP?

Do you not see that this is what the individuals desire? They do not have the ability or desire to build anything substantive to challenge and seek to bring an end by whatever means necessary to Project 1999 PVP.

Think back when Red 99 was released. To these individuals it was about the easy gank kill, or the corpse camping followed by gloating in the form of Project 1999 forum posts. This led to a lot of players simply quitting Red 99. It was never about building a PVP community of collective Everquest players it was about their individual desire. Now with the realization that Red 99 will not be their stomping grounds they have manipulated the idea that the "Collective" many desire a teams based server.

I was not able to be at this meeting of the minds that represented the voices of the many that play Red 99. But i can say that this will end up being a waste of resources and time that could be better spent promoting Red 99, Velious and fixing content/bugs.

The target playerbase for the teams server is not the same target playerbase for red99. Also they have stated numerous time that the work on Velious is in no way compromised or slowed because of this project.

[s1ckness]

supreme biggest non-factor . think iv seen him twice on red99 .. how does this guy think he knows what people want ?

think you r just speaking on your own individual desire

[s1ckness]

lets not forget to mention all the exploits people used to lvl

[Supreme]

What i hear is that Nihilum has exploited/cheated to get where they are.

Yet Nihilum is still here(even GMs have observed Nihilum does not cheat) and somehow a new Teams PVP server will suddenly completely change all of this for the betterment of Project 1999 PVP?

While you may not understand the idea that the few whining attention whores that have been butthurt spanked off the server now demand "something must be done" is imposing the will of the few on the many. Very much like making a rule/law for 1% of the population but it imposes itself on the other 99% no matter how much it may impose or inconvenience.

Why not just man up..make a guild..compete and don't quit when you get spanked but keep trying?



We already know the answer to that...losers always want it to be easy for THEM and do not care about how it affects the rest.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not just man up..make a guild..compete and don't quit when you get spanked but keep trying?

We already know the answer to that...losers always want it to be easy for THEM and do not care about how it affects the rest.

Kind of like how you left blue to go raid on a fresh server after your guild on blue faded into obscurity and was unable to compete? Looks to me like people excited for the new PvP server are just taking a cue from the ol' Supreme playbook.

[heartbrand]

It's pretty egotistical to think the devs are making a server because of nihilum. They're making a team server because lots of people, including mainly those who never played on red99 and couldn't even name five nihilum members, aren't interested in FFA pvp but they are in teams pvp.

Take a look at the nihilum dkp list on any given day and you'll see 30+ people who have quit the game. They were in the top guild and still quit. Why is that? Stuck in Kunark on a one guild server that is dead and boring, with no hope of truly ever attracting any sizable amount of new blood. The most they can hope to get back with velious and fixes is 60-70 people, 75% of who are probably nihilum members.

I'm not blaming the state of the server on nihilum, the server is where it is because of an awful launch with problems plaguing it since day one. But, there's also a problem I completely underestimated which is that FFA grief pvp does not appeal to what should be our biggest target audience: blue guilds sick of the raid scene on blue99. Teams appeals to them.

To me the whole nihilum thing balances out, for every person who claims they quit because of nihilum there's someone else who probably the only reason they still play is a guild like nihilum, it's a wash to me. The questions needing to be asked are the fundamentals as to why we're in the place we're in to begin with. And to that, beyond the resist fixes and all of that, it comes down to the fact that the ruleset itself doesn't appeal to a large portion of players. With teams, suddenly you're attracting those "bluebs", who are at least theoretically more mature and likely to form a base for a fun server with tons of competition. I just don't see that EVER happening on red99 regardless of what fixes they put in place.

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's pretty egotistical to think the devs are making a server because of nihilum. They're making a team server because lots of people, including mainly those who never played on red99 and couldn't even name five nihilum members, aren't interested in FFA pvp but they are in teams pvp.

Take a look at the nihilum dkp list on any given day and you'll see 30+ people who have quit the game. They were in the top guild and still quit. Why is that? Stuck in Kunark on a one guild server that is dead and boring, with no hope of truly ever attracting any sizable amount of new blood. The most they can hope to get back with velious and fixes is 60-70 people, 75% of who are probably nihilum members.

I'm not blaming the state of the server on nihilum, the server is where it is because of an awful launch with problems plaguing it since day one. But, there's also a problem I completely underestimated which is that FFA grief pvp does not appeal to what should be our biggest target audience: blue guilds sick of the raid scene on blue99. Teams appeals to them.

To me the whole nihilum thing balances out, for every person who claims they quit because of nihilum there's someone else who probably the only reason they still play is a guild like nihilum, it's a wash to me. The questions needing to be asked are the fundamentals as to why we're in the place we're in to begin with. And to that, beyond the resist fixes and all of that, it comes down to the fact that the ruleset itself doesn't appeal to a large portion of players. With teams, suddenly you're attracting those "bluebs", who are at least theoretically more mature and likely to form a base for a fun server with tons of competition. I just don't see that EVER happening on red99 regardless of what fixes they put in place.

You make some good points. I would rather see a server like blue that has PVP enabled for the raid zones, like Chardok/KC/Sebilis/PoF/PoH etc, instead of a "teams" server.

But that is me being an individual.

[Fame]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But, there's also a problem I completely underestimated which is that FFA grief pvp does not appeal to what should be our biggest target audience: blue guilds sick of the raid scene on blue99. Teams appeals to them.

The prophecy!

[Kohedron]

I have no interest in FFA, but I'd definitely make a character on a teams server.