Most Valuable Class

[bridgetroll]

i'm surprised two people have already said druid (hopefully not as a joke/troll). there are a lot of people who feel druids are dead weight in groups, especially 50+ unless they are the only healer available.

/shrug

[Crawdad]

1) Bard. Only higher than Enchanter because of the 40% Exp Penalty-- a Great bard will make the Exp ship smooth sailing. Does everything (a bit worse/different) that a Enchanter does. Unfortunately, multiple Great bards don't stack in an Exp group very well.

2) Enchanter. Obvious OP class, but you get a mixed bag. A lazy Enchanter sits around and refreshes Clarity/Haste when asked, Mez's occasionally, and sucks up Exp better divided elsewhere. A Great one Pulls, keeps buffs on a timer, and puts out a significant % of the group's Dps via a charmed badass. Great enchanters stack really well in Exp groups.

3) Druids. Can't swing a dead cat without hitting a mediocre Druid. Average druids waste mana DoT'ing, don't want to heal, or've collected too much moss on them from soloing. Great druids are excellent pullers (outdoors), Heal just fine (in the right level range/group), can handle playing the Crowd Control game, and can also add significant Dps to a group with a charmed animal badass... if there's any in the zone. ...but One is all you'd ever need in an Exp group.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by Crawdad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) Bard. Only higher than Enchanter because of the 40% Exp Penalty-- a Great bard will make the Exp ship smooth sailing. Does everything (a bit worse/different) that a Enchanter does. Unfortunately, multiple Great bards don't stack in an Exp group very well.

2) Enchanter. Obvious OP class, but you get a mixed bag. A lazy Enchanter sits around and refreshes Clarity/Haste when asked, Mez's occasionally, and sucks up Exp better divided elsewhere. A Great one Pulls, keeps buffs on a timer, and puts out a significant % of the group's Dps via a charmed badass. Great enchanters stack really well in Exp groups.

3) Druids. Can't swing a dead cat without hitting a mediocre Druid. Average druids waste mana DoT'ing, don't want to heal, or've collected too much moss on them from soloing. Great druids are excellent pullers (outdoors), Heal just fine (in the right level range/group), can handle playing the Crowd Control game, and can also add significant Dps to a group with a charmed animal badass... if there's any in the zone. ...but One is all you'd ever need in an Exp group.

I very much so enjoy bards, I've played with some good ones that have performed excellent crowd control. However, that's pretty much what i have seen as their max potential for dungeon groups. I would definitely say enchanter is best, shaman is a close second but at least in my eyes shaman's ability is epic soloing which isn't particularly helpful in a group. Fantastic root CC/extra heals etc but without fungi or natural regen they're kind of lacking in a steady stream when duoing with a monk. Just more efficient to solo. I decided to re-roll an enchanter for lower level fun (previously have leveled/epiced an enchanter at 55 and I can tell you that there is nothing more fun than having charm last for 5-10 minutes in unrest at lvl 19 on a mummy that quad hits, two for 38dmg 2 for 15-25. Thinking about it makes me want to unbox my desktop to play.

[Brut]

Bard if 99% of em didnt hit low 50s solo then show up semi-naked at lcy looking confused when told to both manasong and CC adds.

[Dezik]

Epic rogue

[bridgetroll]

Originally Posted by fishingme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I very much so enjoy bards, I've played with some good ones that have performed excellent crowd control. However, that's pretty much what i have seen as their max potential for dungeon groups. I would definitely say enchanter is best, shaman is a close second but at least in my eyes shaman's ability is epic soloing which isn't particularly helpful in a group. Fantastic root CC/extra heals etc but without fungi or natural regen they're kind of lacking in a steady stream when duoing with a monk. Just more efficient to solo. I decided to re-roll an enchanter for lower level fun (previously have leveled/epiced an enchanter at 55 and I can tell you that there is nothing more fun than having charm last for 5-10 minutes in unrest at lvl 19 on a mummy that quad hits, two for 38dmg 2 for 15-25. Thinking about it makes me want to unbox my desktop to play.

that's a fair point. enchanters can really affect a group in all measurable ways, from killing power to crowd control to the healers mana pool. it's really starting to look like a three-horse race between bard, enchanter, and shaman.

Originally Posted by Dezik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Epic rogue

I will say the dps output of an epic rogue is a sight to behold. it really does affect the time mobs are alive and able to deal damage, which makes life easier on everybody. the thing is though, you really don't need a lot of skill to deal a tremendous amount of damage with a ragebringer. it would seem to me that there would probably be only a small gap in terms of production between a master and novice. also, dps is really all a rogue has going for it other than dungeon scouting/lock picking. valuable yes, most valuable? hmm.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by bridgetroll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's a fair point. enchanters can really affect a group in all measurable ways, from killing power to crowd control to the healers mana pool. it's really starting to look like a three-horse race between bard, enchanter, and shaman.



I will say the dps output of an epic rogue is a sight to behold. it really does affect the time mobs are alive and able to deal damage, which makes life easier on everybody. the thing is though, you really don't need a lot of skill to deal a tremendous amount of damage with a ragebringer. it would seem to me that there would probably be only a small gap in terms of production between a master and novice. also, dps is really all a rogue has going for it other than dungeon scouting/lock picking. valuable yes, most valuable? hmm.

a lot of people are bringing up valid points that cleric/tank is essential for a group, which I'm not really planning to dispute. But in all honesty you can work around it without much problems. Enchanters, sure you can take them or leave them if your group is 5-10 levels higher than just breaking into a dungeon. But pure fact of the matter is that enchanters help the entire group xp faster. For a quick thought because I really don't feel like typing out 1-3 pages to explain, enchanters work fantastic solo, duo, trio. I'd rank them as #1, probably tied with epic/fungi shaman for soloing prowess. The fantastic thing about the enchanter though is 20-30k investment into gear and upgrades for the most part don't matter much, with shaman it's between 170-200k investment. If you're a fantastic soloer like an enchanter which can do so much, you bring that and buffs to a group. Once you get into old sebilis and charm starts to become very reliable at 56/57 there, a cleric is great for chealing the 9k HP pet you'll have charmed which makes a tank nearly worthless. Set your group for shaman/cleric/enchanter/whatever other casters or another enchanter for a second charmed pet and you're golden. But again I stress that it's all up to the playstyle of the people that you're with to make sure that nobody does any dumb manuevers.

TLDR: enchanter =/= viagra

[bled12345]

Originally Posted by fishingme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a lot of people are bringing up valid points that cleric/tank is essential for a group, which I'm not really planning to dispute. But in all honesty you can work around it without much problems. Enchanters, sure you can take them or leave them if your group is 5-10 levels higher than just breaking into a dungeon. But pure fact of the matter is that enchanters help the entire group xp faster. For a quick thought because I really don't feel like typing out 1-3 pages to explain, enchanters work fantastic solo, duo, trio. I'd rank them as #1, probably tied with epic/fungi shaman for soloing prowess. The fantastic thing about the enchanter though is 20-30k investment into gear and upgrades for the most part don't matter much, with shaman it's between 170-200k investment. If you're a fantastic soloer like an enchanter which can do so much, you bring that and buffs to a group. Once you get into old sebilis and charm starts to become very reliable at 56/57 there, a cleric is great for chealing the 9k HP pet you'll have charmed which makes a tank nearly worthless. Set your group for shaman/cleric/enchanter/whatever other casters or another enchanter for a second charmed pet and you're golden. But again I stress that it's all up to the playstyle of the people that you're with to make sure that nobody does any dumb manuevers.

TLDR: enchanter =/= viagra

No need for a tank when you have a charmed pet in a group? Uhhh last I checked pet's don't hold aggro. Maybe if you are in a group of caster's that can root / don't have to go into melee range I suppose.


Point being, Enchanters and shaman's are awesome, but not essential. How can they be most valuable, if they are not essential?



And I never said SK / War / Pal are the most needed, just that the Tank role in general is very important, who is best at tanking is always up for debate, but the role of tank > Ench CC. With a good cleric lull, camp can be broken without ench. With a good monk, camp can be broken. With a good tank, healer, anyone with root, multi pull camp's can be broken.



Cleric's by far, are the most important, and thus valuable class in the game.



There were so many times, an enchanter, shaman, or monk, rogue, bard etc had to leave, did /who lfg and filled their role with the first available LFG and did fine.


On the other hand, there have been groups where the cleric had to leave, and without being able to find an available cleric, the group had to either disband, move to an easier, but shitty exp spot, or we all just died / couldn't hold the camp lol.

Same with tank, regardless of which class is playing the role (even ranger) if the tank dies, or shits the bed, or doesn't hold aggro, or doesn't pay attention to adds / aggro on squishies, the group can wipe awfully fast.


ench / shaman buffs are nice, and make things go faster for sure (things are still on spawn timer and past a certain point it doesn't matter if things aren't popping)

the CC is more of a clutch "Oh fuck" play, which is awesome, but usually it means something went wrong with the group and somebody fucked up... Technically, it shouldn't ever be required in the first place if things are pulled properly, lulled properly, broken properly.


Aaaanyways lol.

[webrunner5]

I have to admit now in Kunark a WELL equipped Shaman can do the job. But in the planes it is well so so, and when Velious comes out it will be so so a hell of a lot. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is just crazy how much less plat I have tied up in my Cleric than my Shaman. I found out on my Druid when I leveled it up having a shit pot full of mana was really not a advantage. OK, I can heal or root longer. But then I have to sit for 5 minutes or longer to get it back mana wise. So either way you have down time. You are out of mana quicker or sitting longer to med. Not much fun either way.

On the other hand the Cleric heal spells are just so damn more efficient that it is scary compared to the other healer classes. It is so much easier to play. Too the point of almost being boring compared to constantly doing something on a Shaman. But a Cleric can get boring.

You sit on your ass more but you REALLY don't need Clarity like a Druid or Shaman does. I know Canni is the shits but it is a pain to do it for hours at a time compared to just sitting on a Cleric. You can be the Leader for finding new replacements and actually talk in Tells on a Cleric.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by bled12345 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need for a tank when you have a charmed pet in a group? Uhhh last I checked pet's don't hold aggro. Maybe if you are in a group of caster's that can root / don't have to go into melee range I suppose.


Point being, Enchanters and shaman's are awesome, but not essential. How can they be most valuable, if they are not essential?



And I never said SK / War / Pal are the most needed, just that the Tank role in general is very important, who is best at tanking is always up for debate, but the role of tank > Ench CC. With a good cleric lull, camp can be broken without ench. With a good monk, camp can be broken. With a good tank, healer, anyone with root, multi pull camp's can be broken.



Cleric's by far, are the most important, and thus valuable class in the game.



There were so many times, an enchanter, shaman, or monk, rogue, bard etc had to leave, did /who lfg and filled their role with the first available LFG and did fine.


On the other hand, there have been groups where the cleric had to leave, and without being able to find an available cleric, the group had to either disband, move to an easier, but shitty exp spot, or we all just died / couldn't hold the camp lol.

Same with tank, regardless of which class is playing the role (even ranger) if the tank dies, or shits the bed, or doesn't hold aggro, or doesn't pay attention to adds / aggro on squishies, the group can wipe awfully fast.


ench / shaman buffs are nice, and make things go faster for sure (things are still on spawn timer and past a certain point it doesn't matter if things aren't popping)

the CC is more of a clutch "Oh fuck" play, which is awesome, but usually it means something went wrong with the group and somebody fucked up... Technically, it shouldn't ever be required in the first place if things are pulled properly, lulled properly, broken properly.


Aaaanyways lol.

I believe i explained group play style/class selection in my earlier post, I'd suggest re-reading it, I will gladly explain it more thoroughly if you need. Enchanters practically bring dps/tank into a group with a charmed pet, take for old seb for example a hasted frog will hit for upwards of 100 damage very quickly, and with a pet that has 9k hp there is your tank, sure it can't "hold" aggro, but that's easily fixed with a root. With the group that I have in mind specifically for an enchanter, there would be no melee. Enchanter is a very universal class. Look at all the (forgot what it was called exactly) but that one dude's solo challenge, you bring a class as powerful as an enchanter into a group then you're golden. I was soloing all of LCY on my shaman at 52, and most of it on my enchanter at the same level. But in reality it does depend on the classes/levels in your group. Karnor's in a certain way is a "low" level dungeon. Of course you won't need an enchanter if you have people in your group for say, LCY if you have a few people over 55. But try to hold LCY with a group of low level 50's(no one above 53 or 54) then add an enchanter into the mix and you will notice a significant bump in xp and ease of playing because you're not having to calculate mana/heals as much.

Clerics, ya know it's really last resort that you want them to be out pulling when their time is better spent meditating. Yes, traditional groups tend to die/disband without a healer it is sad but it happens. I suppose you're right if you want to get down to the knitty gritty of a pure group where you have a bunch of melee and what not, but nearly every offhealing class can fill the roll of a cleric in a group. Heh, I've been in groups where I've had druids healing on p99 and paladins healing back on live.


Same with tank, regardless of which class is playing the role (even ranger) if the tank dies, or shits the bed, or doesn't hold aggro, or doesn't pay attention to adds / aggro on squishies, the group can wipe awfully fast.

easily fixed with either a shaman for slow (very OP) or enchanter for slow/aoe mez.