WTF is happening...

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by Coridan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure someone can, but no one will. Also, 800k is not really enough to get an MMO going. They really needed to make their stretch goals.

Kickstarters like this are merely hype builders and info dumps - they aren't meant to completely fund the game. It let's Brad show possible investors that there is interest in the game he wants to make. That may backfire since there has been a low backer total but high average donation per backer - which indicates there may not be that big of a market for such a game (honestly the idea of an old school MMO is niche anyways).

[skipdog]

Meh, I hate how kickstarter is being used.

People should invest in something to get a stake in that investment.

[Man0warr]

The game industry as a whole is broken right now. The cost of development of AAA games has skyrocketed so much that only a few franchises are successful. Only a few ways to fix it - 1) Raise price of games (consumers are obviously against paying more than the 50-60 we pay now) or 2) Figure out how to make games cheaper, which they have so far failed at. It's also one of the only industries where you can continuously fail at your job (Producer or Director of a game) and still get hired at another company to do the same job. Not to mention the rampant nepotism.

At least Kickstarter allows some legit small dev teams to create games that are fully crowd funded and don't require going to corrupt publishers.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Praying this doesn't turn into a SOE buyout like Vanguard.

Quote from Brad, taken from the comments section of his interview with Boogie2988:

"In a nutshell, our publisher was Microsoft and we had a deal with them to make a new AAA MMO. For about four years everything was going well and we were almost ready to start some early alpha testing of the game. Then there was a regime change at Microsoft, with the VP of their games devision leaving the company along with just about everyone who worked for him. The new group that was assigned to our project wasn't interested in doing an MMO. They accused us of being late and over budget. They wanted to push us out the door and launch the game one year early.

This would, of course, result in total failure. So I went out and did two things: I approached SOE, asking them to take over publishing Vanguard and to fund us to completion. At the same time, I went on the road and approached a variety of investors, seeing if we could drum up some interest to invest in the game and the company, again to give us the funding we needed to complete the game.

In the limited time we had, we failed to raise any additional funds from investors. SOE, however, was able to step in and help out. They assumed the publishing rights to the game and were able to fund us for six more months. That was, of course, better than nothing and the best they could do at the time. But we really needed 12 more months. With only 6 months we ran out of time before we could polish and optimize the game. So when the game was released in January of 2007, it wasn't in very good shape. The game sold 250K units very quickly, but then the majority of players ended up quitting by level 2 or 3. Why so quickly? (you could achieve level 2 or 3 in a couple of hours). But the players couldn't enjoy the game in its unoptimized state unless they had the latest and greatest PC and graphics card. And even then the game didn't perform that well.

A few months after launch SOE decided to buy both Sigil and Vanguard. They were again a bit strapped for cash and couldn't keep the Sigil office fully staffed (at Vanguard's launch we had something like 105 employees). So about 50% of the company was laid off. The whole situation was horrible, but I need to stress that if SOE hadn't been able to come in and help as much as they could, things would have been even worse. At the very least, Vanguard did ship.

SOE then focussed on optimizing the Vanguard client and server tech. Eventually the game was playable by most average PCs, but by then critical mass and momentum had been lost. Players had left with a bad taste in their mouth and many were not willing to come back and give Vanguard another chance. So Vanguard continued on as an SOE game and, over time, became an MMO that I'm very proud of -- it was a lot of fun and most of the new game features like Diplomacy turned out to be pretty cool. The players that remained became a small but passionate and loyal bunch.

In fact, only just recently did SOE decide to shut Vanguard down. The game was up and mostly playable for 7 years. Most of the employees that were laid off were able to take their 4+ years of game development experience and land jobs elsewhere in the industry.

But there's no getting around the fact that things got ugly in early 2007. People who had poured their hearts and souls into Vanguard were laid off right after the game launched. It was a dark time and I was in a dark place. I made my share of mistakes... perhaps I could have seen what was coming, or kept more money in reserve for a rainy day. I was out of the office quite a bit talking with investors and pitching the game. I was therefore absent during a lot of these trying times. As the game sort of fell apart, so did I. There was a lot of stress and anxiety.

So anyway, that's the short version I guess. The good news is that I know myself a lot better now and have learned from my mistakes. So have the other guys on my team who were Sigil employees at the time. Our project now is smaller and the team not nearly as large. We're able to turn the negative that was the Vanguard situation into a positive, by building on our experiences and setting things up a lot smarter this time around.

-Brad"

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The game industry as a whole is broken right now. The cost of development of AAA games has skyrocketed so much that only a few franchises are successful. Only a few ways to fix it - 1) Raise price of games (consumers are obviously against paying more than the 50-60 we pay now) or 2) Figure out how to make games cheaper, which they have so far failed at.

At least Kickstarter allows some legit small dev teams to create games that are fully crowd funded and don't require going to corrupt publishers.

Yeah, there are a LOT of gamer idiots out there ready to fork out money because 'OOOH PRETTY SCREENSHOTS AND PROMISES!!'

I don't hold it against developers when there are enough mouth-breathers ready to fund your project who get no stake in its success. It's a brilliant idea.

Honestly though, there have been a ton of high quality indie games released in the last couple years that were able to be made without swindling money from kickstarter idiots.

[jarshale]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At least Kickstarter allows some legit small dev teams to create games that are fully crowd funded and don't require going to corrupt publishers.

I think we're going to see more and more "indie" MMOs coming out through crowdfunding like kickstarter. People are realizing that you just can't throw ludicrous amounts of money at a game to make it successful. For example, TOR was one of the most (or maybe the most) expensive game ever made, and it was a fucking mess and went free to play almost instantly.

So we probably won't see another giant like WoW anytime soon, but hopefully we'll see more smaller scale and specialized MMOs. They'll stop trying to appeal to everyone, and start thinking up interesting concepts and play styles to appeal to certain groups. This will also hopefully encourage healthy communities. I played with many of the same people for years on EQ, but 99% of the people I played WoW with I never saw again after a week or so.

[Roth]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, there are a LOT of gamer idiots out there ready to fork out money because 'OOOH PRETTY SCREENSHOTS AND PROMISES!!'

I don't hold it against developers when there are enough mouth-breathers ready to fund your project who get no stake in its success. It's a brilliant idea.

Honestly though, there have been a ton of high quality indie games released in the last couple years that were able to be made without swindling money from kickstarter idiots.

Just watching the pantheon video, I think they're going to miss the point. I think it's going to end up like whatever other new mmo comes out and they will try to add in some gimmicks and it won't work. It's going to end up feeling exactly like every other mmo out there even if they change a lot of things up.

[Coridan]

You aren't "investing" with kickstaryer. You are pre-ordering whatever reward it is you want. If you don't feel the reward tier is worth the money you don't buy it. Investment is completely different, just because both of thesr are giving money to the company beforehand doesn't mean it is an investment.

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by Coridan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You aren't "investing" with kickstaryer. You are pre-ordering whatever reward it is you want. If you don't feel the reward tier is worth the money you don't buy it. Investment is completely different, just because both of thesr are giving money to the company beforehand doesn't mean it is an investment.

Question: What if you pledge a bunch of money, the kickstarter succeeds, and the lead of the project snorts all the money up his nose or swallows it in pill form with a splash of 800 dollar a bottle scotch and the project never completes? What happens to your money then?

[Tecmos Deception]

All I know is that if any of you guys are spending much money at all for any games that are remotely new, instead of playing (or replaying) all the great games from the late 80s up to 2000ish, then you're doing it wrong.