Spells: Enc spell hate too much?

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Slayn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have read several guides on archived castersrealm websites and allakhazam websites that have detailed comments from players on soloing strategies and techniques. Many of these comments provide hints about how much threat is generated from certain spells. For instance, many of these guides begin with the enchanter opening with spells like tash and choke, followed by the enc pet immediately gaining aggro after the enc is hit by damage.

On project 1999, this is hardly the case. If I open with tash (the lowest hate-building enc spell at the moment it seems), it normally takes my pet at least 2 taunts and/or 50 damage to gain aggro. If I open with choke, the mob will beat on me it's entire life unless I root or whirl it. Additionally, any debuffs like incapacitate or mesmerize will cause a mob to beat on me until it is dead even if my pet or group does 100% of the damage dealt.

In classic, I played an Enchanter through Velious and into Luclin, and the only spell that ever caused this much hate was charm. In project 1999, it seems that the hate generated by charm is one of the lowest hate generating spells there is. While spells like these did generate a large amount of hate in classic, Project 1999's numbers seem to be a bit off.

Some might say that the hate generated by these spells are the same as in classic, however, through research of classic-era posts from many different users, and from personal experience, I am convinced that something is not right. If Enchanter spells are working correctly, then something else is not functioning correctly such as threat generated by malee damage and/or taunt.

- Slayn, 19 Enchanter

Maybe you got a point, but there's so much complaining alongside legitimate bugs that it's hard to tell the differnece. Many many people use the term "bug" too liberally, to complain about an aspect of the game they don't like.

Mes isn't just a debuff. Once you cast it, you should "dazzle" them so they don't come on you. Otherwise, casting mes on mobs will aggro them on you once they come out of it (this is how it works anyway in the classic mm's). (this is modern eq) I been in a lot of mm's where the chanter messes htem and then gets raped because he didn't dazzle em (prolly mess'd himself tho cuz he's too close).

[guineapig]

While I agree that you should always memory blur a mezzed mob when in a group or at least root it if it's not a caster, agro is way off where it should be. Some of the spells do seem mixed up a bit, but in general if you ever played chanter before you should expect to be the most hated member of the team most of the time.

That being said, it is manageable once you get the timing of the group down. I for one wait a bit longer before I tash/slow or tash/debuff when I have a Warrior tank then when I have an SK or Paly tank and that's pretty much the way I have always done it.

With an SK tank I can pretty much start casting at 98%, with a Paly I would say start casting at 95%, with a warrior wait till 90%. Of course that depends on what you are casting and how fast you cast a follow up spell.

[Takon]

Having started an enchanter alt, I've noticed a bit of this, too. I gained aggro way more easily than others in my group. I noticed something else that I thought was a bit odd. I'm not sure how this was in classic, as I never had an enchanter then, but I was not only gaining a ton of aggro from spells, but I was gaining aggro from spell RESISTS.

I cast my choke spell on a mob and had it resisted, so I cast again. The spell was again resisted. However, at this point, with me having done no damage at all to the mob (nor having debuffed, mezed, hit it with anything!) the mob turned on me and attacked... and it took several rounds for the group to pull aggro away. And all this with me having done NOTHING to harm the mob.

This seemed more than a bit odd. Addmitedly, this was a low level EC orc group so I don't know if this happens at highter levels, but it seemed quite odd to gain aggro from two resisted spells.

Playing a wiz on '99 and having played one up through lvl 70 or some shit on live, my experience shows this working as normal. I actually think resists generate more agro than damaged nukes, through several years of testing.

[Zinyen]

Originally Posted by Takon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Playing a wiz on '99 and having played one up through lvl 70 or some shit on live, my experience shows this working as normal. I actually think resists generate more agro than damaged nukes, through several years of testing.

Yes. Resists caused more hate in classic EQ than the normal spell. Also, Enc spells like Chaotic Feedback were incredible threat, and back then we always assumed it was because of the damage+stun component it had. I remember dreading chaotic feedback being resisted, because it was going to be such high threat.

[Gaaaaavin]

Originally Posted by Zinyen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes. Resists caused more hate in classic EQ than the normal spell. Also, Enc spells like Chaotic Feedback were incredible threat, and back then we always assumed it was because of the damage+stun component it had. I remember dreading chaotic feedback being resisted, because it was going to be such high threat.

That's good to know, thanks! Like I said, I never played any pure casters beyond the first few levels back in classic. This is good to know for the future. Thanks!

[Samuel]

Does anyone remember how much hate the Malo line of spells caused in classic? I didn't play a shaman in classic (played a druid and warrior) so I can't comment. However, I spent a lot of time as a shaman after velious and the malo line of spells caused a very small amount of hate. On this server malo causes a LOT of hate (which may be correct, as I said I don't know).

[argamath]

Tash line is not enough aggro, other enchanter spells are too much aggro. Much different than live.

[messiah_b]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Get a warrior or other melee in there to taunt and/or keep aggro off you. Get a well balanced group.

I don't mean to sounds mean, but you shouldn't change classic to fit your opinion of how groups should work.

My nightly group is war - cle - enc - necro - monk - dru all in the 10-12 range.

After mez nothing any of us do will pull that mob of an enchanter. Chanter has to root or tank it usually till it's dead although there have been a few cases where it turns around at a melee when it's under 10%.

upside: it does make for a nice yakkity sax moment every time we break mez and the enchanter is running in circles followed by mob followed by ogre/human/skele

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by messiah_b [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My nightly group is war - cle - enc - necro - monk - dru all in the 10-12 range.

After mez nothing any of us do will pull that mob of an enchanter. Chanter has to root or tank it usually till it's dead although there have been a few cases where it turns around at a melee when it's under 10%.

upside: it does make for a nice yakkity sax moment every time we break mez and the enchanter is running in circles followed by mob followed by ogre/human/skele

Not belittling the issue but this might help for now. Root the mob a good 10-15 seconds after mez so when it wakes up it simply can't chase after you. (If I recall your current mez has about a 24 second duration, right?

When mez breaks make sure you are standing, sitting will just put you higher on the hate list.

The tank should taunt right before breaking mez. THIS IS KEY. Taunt makes the tanks hate increase to the current highest +1. If taunt is successful and the tank then bashes, kicks or whatever to break mez (instead of waiting for it to end) and you are standing, then there is no way that the mob should go after you. (he has to break mez right after the successful taunt or else you risk having the mob run it's mez/break check, at which time you get bumped back up to the top of the hate list.)

It sounds like a lot of steps but once you get a good rhythm you can start leaving out the part about rooting as it's not necessary. The rest really only takes a second.

(P.S. If your tank is a paly or SK just have them use stun/hate spell respectively. those actually work much better than taunt.)

[Smashed]

Another thing to consider is the terribly high aggro on these spells is only disguised to the rest of the group members by the fact that whirl till you hurl is so powerful. But considering the people playing enc on this server, I doubt the people in charge will let anything bad happen to the class?