I have something to admit

[ryuut1]

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[Harrison]

Nothing says pimp like snorting shitty coke through a $1 bill.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AP classes in high school are a joke. It's just more homework for the same end result. You don't learn anything different, any more, or less. It's a sham to placate rich parents who want their kids to be "special".

You don't find it somewhat amusing that high school teachers are teaching both the lowest classes and the "best" classes simultaneously? Why aren't they college professors if they are teaching "college level" classes? Lol what a joke...

I teach an AP class. I am qualified to teach at the college level. Why?

1. if you want to teach at a low end college you will not make as much money as in a good high school district.

2. if you want to teach at a higher end college you will need to get your doctorate before you can get a professor's position. Without a real position, you will make less than in a good school district. If you do get a professor's position you will be expected by most universities to do research and publish on a regular basis. This is not what I want to do with my career.

3. I enjoy my high school community and am fond of my students. I am able to get involved at a very different level by working with students at a high school age than a college teacher would be able to, which I find rewarding.

The assumption that there is a direct correlation between the level of instruction one teaches to the ability of the teacher is a huge error. Most college professors are not very good teachers---they may be experts in their field---but teaching is not about just "knowing" the subject matter.

Believe it or not, but many AP teachers in good school districts are much more knowledgeable and skilled in teaching than most of their counter-parts at many colleges. Most 101 courses at major universities, including the ivies, are taught by grad students. The work expectation might be larger over a shorter period of time, but the teaching itself is probably stronger at the high school level.

[Taminy]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I teach an AP class. I am qualified to teach at the college level. Why?

1. if you want to teach at a low end college you will not make as much money as in a good high school district.

I just started teaching at a 2 year college - a "low end" college if you will. They gave me about 2 years worth of experience for my grad working TAing and tutoring as well as a lot of the private tutoring I did after my undergrad. Even without that slight pay bump, I still make more than *average* high school teacher in my state. Not more than the average starting salary, but more than the average of all salaries. I also get more time off: 1 month in winter and a solid 3 months in summer. If I teach then I get a pay bump. I have some training I can complete then or during the regular year but unlikely more than regular high school teachers. Also I'm expected to work about 37.5 hours a week during the school year and that includes lecture time, prep time, grading time, and office hours. The only sucky part is the night classes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. if you want to teach at a higher end college you will need to get your doctorate before you can get a professor's position. Without a real position, you will make less than in a good school district. If you do get a professor's position you will be expected by most universities to do research and publish on a regular basis. This is not what I want to do with my career.

Yep I do not want to do that either. Most of the cool stuff (at least in math) you learn at the advanced undergrad and beginning graduate level.

You can sometimes teach at a big university with "only" a master's. One of my classmates is teaching at the school where we both got our master's degrees. Sometimes they don't have that because it's cheaper to get the grad students to do it.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. I enjoy my high school community and am fond of my students. I am able to get involved at a very different level by working with students at a high school age than a college teacher would be able to, which I find rewarding.

I've worked with high school kids before. I like adults more. You usually don't get as involved with them but you can also have a bit more of a casual relationship with them. And of course no behavior problems with adults (just entitlement issues).

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The assumption that there is a direct correlation between the level of instruction one teaches to the ability of the teacher is a huge error. Most college professors are not very good teachers---they may be experts in their field---but teaching is not about just "knowing" the subject matter.

Agreed 1000000%. I like teaching at my current school, and I think I'm a better teacher than I am a mathematician. And yes a lot of my professors weren't the greatest teachers (some where still good though). Not that I think research is absolutely useless, it's just not for me. I think one day if a brilliant idea comes to me I can publish it, but I'm not going to get in the publish or perish cycle of BS [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Believe it or not, but many AP teachers in good school districts are much more knowledgeable and skilled in teaching than most of their counter-parts at many colleges. Most 101 courses at major universities, including the ivies, are taught by grad students. The work expectation might be larger over a shorter period of time, but the teaching itself is probably stronger at the high school level.

This is very true at the big university level. At community colleges and 4 year liberal arts schools though you are likely getting a more trained teacher than someone at the high school level (I have to have a master's degree in anything but at least 18 graduate level credits in the subject I want to teach). In high school you might have someone teaching AP calc who "only" has a bachelor's degree in chem and a teaching certificate. Calc may well have been the highest math class they took themselves.

I understand being an expert in one's field isn't the same as being a good teacher, but would you want someone teaching your kids Algebra I when they never took Geometry or Algebra II?

[fastboy21]

well, my field of study is history. my undergrad BA is history and linguistics, my two masters degrees are in history and education administration, and i'm finishing my phd in education.

a teacher in my district with my level of education and time teaching starts at around $90k/year. plus, we have full benefits, tenure, pension on retirement.

at the local community college I would start around $55k---with substantially less benefits and much sketchier pension plan. in history, professorships in history are extremely competitive...and they involve the expectation of research and publishing--which just isn't for me, at least not at my current stage of life.

it all comes down to one's personal tastes. the notion though from the OP was that only someone who COULDN'T teach at college level would settle for teaching high school. That just isn't true. There are lots of good reasons why someone would stay teaching classes at a high school level instead of college.

[Hasbinbad]

Teachers at my "low end" college get paid grip and are mostly Ph.D's. I live in an "underserved" community, and they get fat bonuses for teaching in what amounts to a dangerous area with students struggling to bootstrap through college.

[Harrison]

I wonder what your degree in liberal arts is costing me.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wonder what your degree in liberal arts is costing me.

Probably not as much as your VA package is costing me.

[Taminy]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well, my field of study is history. my undergrad BA is history and linguistics, my two masters degrees are in history and education administration, and i'm finishing my phd in education.

a teacher in my district with my level of education and time teaching starts at around $90k/year. plus, we have full benefits, tenure, pension on retirement.

at the local community college I would start around $55k---with substantially less benefits and much sketchier pension plan. in history, professorships in history are extremely competitive...and they involve the expectation of research and publishing--which just isn't for me, at least not at my current stage of life.

Hm what state? A starting CC teacher here (Wisconsin) also earns $55k but that's with a master's only. We also get retirement and a form of tenure as well. An average high school teacher with a master's here earns around $52k. That's not a teacher with a master's starting out, that's the overall average. A bachelor's is less than that of course and I believe starting out (when I looked into it) was around $35k a year.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it all comes down to one's personal tastes. the notion though from the OP was that only someone who COULDN'T teach at college level would settle for teaching high school. That just isn't true. There are lots of good reasons why someone would stay teaching classes at a high school level instead of college.

No and not to troll but I did take a slight tangent to it. Some high school teachers are qualified to teach college level classes - at the same time, many aren't. I know this because a friend of mine who went into high school teaching... again with a BS in chem... was the school's math expert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Taminy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hm what state? A starting CC teacher here (Wisconsin) also earns $55k but that's with a master's only. We also get retirement and a form of tenure as well. An average high school teacher with a master's here earns around $52k. That's not a teacher with a master's starting out, that's the overall average. A bachelor's is less than that of course and I believe starting out (when I looked into it) was around $35k a year.



No and not to troll but I did take a slight tangent to it. Some high school teachers are qualified to teach college level classes - at the same time, many aren't. I know this because a friend of mine who went into high school teaching... again with a BS in chem... was the school's math expert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said a starting teacher with my education/experience. I have two masters degrees + 30 credits towards phd. I also have 10 years experience. Starting salary for that in my northern nj district is about 90k/year.

I agree some high school teachers can't teach at a college level due to knowledge and qualification limits. that wasn't my point. my point was that there was an assumption by the OP that everyone who could qualify to teach at a college level would do so rather than teach high school. that isn't true. there are lots of valid reasons why someone would prefer to teach high school rather than college despite being qualified to do so.

salaries vary widely from district to district and college to college. i have taught at my local community college and also taught at my university while finishing my second masters...my salary was substantially lower (starting salary about 55k if I wanted to do it full time). I'm not saying my experience is the rule for everyone, but it certainly isn't unusual.