Weapon Ratios

[Jimjam]

How do fractions round when the damage a hit does it work out? I imagine some ratios would produce more beneficial round errors than others!

Hmm... thinking of that, wasn't rounding errors for haste actually a problem at some point on live?

[Ravager]

Also gotta remember the importance of delay when it comes to things like push and damage shields. Facing a lot of casters, I'd take a Jade Mace in the off hand over CSS. If the druid in your group isn't making himself useful and dispelling the damage shields, you're looking at the only situation where I'd even consider using a Green Jade Axe

[webrunner5]

No doubt that with equal weapons in both hands the Secondary does less damage because it hits less often.

Put 2 weapons with the same ratio in both hands, but have them different types. By that I mean say a 1hb in primary and a 1hs in secondary. It takes forever to raise the Slashing skill in secondary compared to the Blunt weapon in Primary or vise versa.

There is a formula around but I don't remember it. I would bet the Secondary, being equal, does at least 30% less damage than the Primary.

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also gotta remember the importance of delay when it comes to things like push and damage shields.

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No doubt that with equal weapons in both hands the Secondary does less damage because it hits less often.

Again, I understand these nuances, but they are irrelevant to the thread topic. I'm not asking what hand a particular weapon should be equipped in, or for the pros/cons of using faster or slower weapons (other than delay's direct effect on autoattack dmg output).

The topic I'm trying to gain insight on is whether ceteris paribus, do equal ratio weapons truly produce the same average damage output? If damage bonuses didn't exist, as in the offhand weapon when dual wielding, or below level 28 in the main hand, are a jade mace and knuckles dusters essentially the same weapon?

Please ignore interactions of mechanics like damage shields, push, riposte checks, damage bonuses, damage caps, etc. I'm just looking for proof that equal ratio weapons have the same theoretical damage output when considering only the effects of their damage (uncapped) and delay (no mainhand bonus).

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, I understand these nuances, but they are irrelevant to the thread topic. I'm not asking what hand a particular weapon should be equipped in, or for the pros/cons of using faster or slower weapons (other than delay's direct effect on autoattack dmg output).

The topic I'm trying to gain insight on is whether ceteris paribus, do equal ratio weapons truly produce the same average damage output? If damage bonuses didn't exist, as in the offhand weapon when dual wielding, or below level 28 in the main hand, are a jade mace and knuckles dusters essentially the same weapon?

Please ignore interactions of mechanics like damage shields, push, riposte checks, damage bonuses, damage caps, etc. I'm just looking for proof that equal ratio weapons have the same theoretical damage output when considering only the effects of their damage (uncapped) and delay (no mainhand bonus).

In that case find a torpor shaman and a cleric and do a ton of parses on a long fight, maybe on Priest of Discord and let him ch himself and don't use haste. Short of having the code, you won't get that proof any other way.

Hypothetically, a low delay weapon of the same ratio will out damage a high delay weapon in a short group fight because you'll get more successful swings in before the mob dies and a miss or missed double attack doesn't lose as much damage as in a high delay weapon, though the difference is probably minimal. In a long fight they're probably the same.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The topic I'm trying to gain insight on is whether ceteris paribus, do equal ratio weapons truly produce the same average damage output?

I did some parses for my monk, and my conclusion was yes, but as you are being told the only way to convince yourself is to download gamparse and give it a shot.

[Cecily]

Your primary weapon will trigger once every time its delay runs out. This will run a double attack check. Your secondary weapon will run a dual wield check when its delay runs out. If that is successful, you attack and then check for a double. This is where baby quads come from. Obviously offhand does less because it's not a sure thing. If you put a moss covered twig in your offhand though... Expect to get a ton of 1hb skill ups quickly.

That's why I always suggest to put the "best" damage dealing weapon in primary and w/e other junk you have in offhand. Upgrade main, swap old main to offhand. Also why I hate primary only weapons.

[Dulu]

Wouldn't abilities like Double/Triple Attack and Riposte play into a weapons overall DPS?

I don't know the rate at which DA/TA procs, or if it's modified by speed.. but Riposte seems to be pretty clearly enhanced by having a slow weapon in the main hand.

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please ignore interactions of mechanics like damage shields, push, riposte checks, damage bonuses, damage caps, etc. I'm just looking for proof that equal ratio weapons have the same theoretical damage output when considering only the effects of their damage (uncapped) and delay (no mainhand bonus).

Originally Posted by Dulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wouldn't abilities like Double/Triple Attack and Riposte play into a weapons overall DPS?

I don't know the rate at which DA/TA procs, or if it's modified by speed.. but Riposte seems to be pretty clearly enhanced by having a slow weapon in the main hand.

I'm not talking about overall dps, I'm talking about autoattack dps. Dual wield and double attack skill checks may very well be crucial variables, as they directly control the number of autoattacks in a given time frame.

Ripostes are not autoattacks. The benefits of a slower weapon with regards to Riposte have no place in this discussion.

[Jimjam]

I've noticed when playing low level characters that sometimes my weapon will do more than it's 'max hit' (i.e. greater than 2xDMG). It tends to happen more when my Str is buffed.

Can this bonus damage from Str apply to the off hand? And do we know if this bonus damage is a factor of DMG or is it a simply added on bonus?

If the rare bonus damage from Str applies to the offhand AND it is not a factor of DMG then it stands to reason that lower delay weapons will benefit more from it, in the same way that low delay primary weapons benefit from damage bonus (just to a lesser extent).

Also, to repeat my previous question, how does EQ handle rounding fractions when working out damage/hit? This could produce errors that might benefit different delays.