Shaman race poll

[Slave35]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see a pattern here. Torpor, Torpor, Torpor.
If Torpor is so huge then why do you say Ogre is the superior race? All shaman's of any race can use Torpor. Barb, Troll, Iksar.

Even while you're using Torpor you'll still be getting more health regen as a troll or iksar. So torpor+more health regen. Whoa.. And you said it yourself three times.. Torpor What does torpor do? it regens health. More health regen? Yes please.

Torpor lasts 4 ticks,. Standing a troll/iksar would get 33 more health then a ogre. Sitting they'd get 44 more health.
torpor = 300hp * 4 ticks = 1200 health
1276 health(ogre/barb(fungi)) vs 1308(troll/iksar(fungi)) standing
1288 health(ogre/barb(fungi)) vs 1332(troll/iksar(fungi)) sitting.

Frontal stun immunity or not,.. you're going to be regening so much it wont matter, Ogre or Not. Just use your spells, abilities and skill as a shaman to not get caught in a situation where you're getting frontal stun locked.
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I do not believe that the Ogre's racial is as crucial to the shaman class as say it is to the warrior class. The power of the shaman really doesn't come from it's race as has been mentioned many times. Even the op admits this. It's the spells it has in the endgame.

I know this card has been pulled one too many times,. But there is Barb shamans who can do content just as hard as any other race. They don't get regen or frontal stun immunity. What does that tell you? I get the feeling the race doesn't matter honestly. But I rest easier at night thinking about my improved regen on my troll vs my barb.

Edit: Why did I take time to write all this out? Your post makes it sound like ogre is the clear cut winner. At least in my initial post I presented some positive facts about all the shaman race choices. Saying that one is better just because it is doesn't help people.

Frontal stun immunity is the best racial ability in the entire game, let alone for shaman where it really matters the most. I thought this was so apparent as to be self-evident. Torpor means that any regeneration from Iksar and Troll are completely negated as a benefit. Stun immunity means that getting off just one more spell in an entire fight makes the Ogre another 400+ health more efficient, if that spell is Torpor, and 800+ if that spell is a Slow. Multiply that by every single time you cast a spell.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I get the feeling the race doesn't matter honestly.

I agree. The Shaman doesn't have a genuinely bad race choice; even its worst choice (Barbarian) still ranks among the better options for other classes.

I think, today, a significant consideration for a player just starting out is the massive cost of Torpor--in the 150K range and possibly climbing. There are Shaman players who level, group extensively, reach level 60, raid, then retire their Shamans to alt status without ever being able to afford Torpor. If I was starting today I'd take a long hard look at Iksars or Trolls. Without Torpor, those two have a better quality of life than the others, and Torpor isn't a sure thing for today's new player, if it ever was.

---------------------------------------------

EDIT: With respect to the Ogre racial, it's excellent for solo-based Shamans. The downside of bash resistance is how it becomes completely worthless as soon as the Shaman isn't being hit--like is the norm any time the Shaman groups with a competent tank, for example. Racial regen has the advantage of always being on and hence always providing its benefit regardless of play style.

Danth

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Slave35 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the dirty low-down:

Ogre has frontal stun immunity.
Level 60 with Torpor is absolutely the Shaman class's power spike.
Level 60 with Torpor nullifies any regeneration bonus the Troll might enjoy.
Level 60 with Torpor, Ogre is clearly the superior shaman, and probably the strongest race/class combination in the game.
If you don't care about level 60 with Torpor, and farming the hardest things you can and doing it the easiest, then Troll has a great look, regeneration, and snare click.

tl;dr: Troll 1-59. Ogre 60.

yea but the superiority of the ogre at 60 is tantamount to saying the barbarian is superior cus in a weird twist of fate you managed to be running from something and got stuck in a tunnel and died because of the ogres size. The frontal stun provides that much of a leg up on the other races.

In other words, its not going to save you're life very much if at all, so I therefor would suggest regen/size as a palpable reason to choose a race.

Lastly, lets to be honest. No mater what perk you get, you'll think about how much the other perks would be more valuable to you... I did barb then ogre, and noticed how frustrating it was more than it was benifitial.. but I do remember playing my barb and every time I ran the gauntlet of rooted rotting mobs to change position and Id get stunned, id think FUCK I BET OGRE DOESN'T GET STUNNED *RAGE*

tl;dr there is no *best* choice, there is a choice that is best for you but in the end you'll think you've chosen wrong no mater what.

[Zill]

What the actual fuck is up with the poll options? Who makes a poll that way?

And OP u crazy for rerolling Barb for a fatty. Could have your epic and a girlfriend by the time u hit 58 on the Troll too

[Slave35]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tl;dr there is no *best* choice, there is a choice that is best for you but in the end you'll think you've chosen wrong no mater what.

I've played every race of shaman several times, then the Ogre to 60 and now have Torpor. The whole time before 60 on the Ogre I was still honestly thinking, "holy shit this is literally as OP as sex with two women at once." That's the last I'll comment. Draw your own conclusions; the data's already all here in this thread and about 100 others.

[Ricky Bobby]

Sorry about coming on so strong about the whole regen thing.
In my case I plan on being a group support shaman, I'll let the ogre warrior take the hits to the face. I don't plan on taking down raid bosses solo every day like Slave35 does.

So the improved regen for me is huge because it lasts forever.
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[Slave35]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry about coming on so strong about the whole regen thing.
In my case I plan on being a group support shaman, I'll let the ogre warrior take the hits to the face. I don't plan on taking down raid bosses solo every day like Slave35 does.

So the improved regen for me is huge because it lasts forever.
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That's a pretty spreadsheet but remember by the time it really matters, you'll have Regrowth and a Fungi tunic, so add 30 to both sides. The qualitative difference between 4-12 is a lot more than that between 34-42.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Slave35 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a pretty spreadsheet but remember by the time it really matters, you'll have Regrowth and a Fungi tunic, so add 30 to both sides. The qualitative difference between 4-12 is a lot more than that between 34-42.

a) a fungi isn't a given during your leveling outside of twinking
b) the difference sitting is +7/+10/+11 at 51/56/59, in groups, as soon as mobs are slowed and properly controlled, the smart shaman is either canni-dancing between med ticks or machine-gun canni-ing 5-8 fast cycles and then sitting for the extra 20 mana/tick meditating and the extra hp regen.
c) the regen stacks with regrowth and fungi, so it's a moot point
d) by the time the regen argument is negligible (torpor), you're already level 60 and practically done with EQ outside of raids, tunnelquesting, and farming for the sake of farming ... and that also requires a spell that currently sells for 150k+

The regen is always with you. It's always making you more efficient and giving you more mana. Compared to slightly better stats and frontal cone bash stun (not side, or back, not immune from push interrupt) ... regen for a lot of people is the clear winner.

Ogre FSI is nice. There are those that swear by it ... but I've met very few shamans who played iksar or troll and wished they had an ogre instead. I've met many ogres and barbarians who have expressed frustration/regret at not rolling a race that has innate regen. During your time spent leveling, it's a huge boon.

[iruinedyourday]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who says there is one beat shaman both doesn't know the best solo shaman on blue is a barb named triangle.

[Slave35]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a) a fungi isn't a given during your leveling outside of twinking
b) the difference sitting is +7/+10/+11 at 51/56/59, in groups, as soon as mobs are slowed and properly controlled, the smart shaman is either canni-dancing between med ticks or machine-gun canni-ing 5-8 fast cycles and then sitting for the extra 20 mana/tick meditating and the extra hp regen.
c) the regen stacks with regrowth and fungi, so it's a moot point
d) by the time the regen argument is negligible (torpor), you're already level 60 and practically done with EQ outside of raids, tunnelquesting, and farming for the sake of farming ... and that also requires a spell that currently sells for 150k+

A) Fungi tunic is required gear on a shaman if you are not desperately poor.
B) When you get a global CDR remover such as goblin beads, and have Torpor, sitting becomes obsolete.
C) Reducing the ratio of the regeneration is not a moot point, it's a math point.
D) I am level 60. I have Torpor. I am not practically done with EQ. This is my main character and focus despite other level 60s. This is anecdotal but so far it's the only one with actual experience that I've read in this thread.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've met very few shamans who played iksar or troll and wished they had an ogre instead. I've met many ogres and barbarians who have expressed frustration/regret at not rolling a race that has innate regen. During your time spent leveling, it's a huge boon.

The results of this very poll scientifically belie this assertion.

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who says there is one beat shaman both doesn't know the best solo shaman on blue is a barb named triangle.

The only class/race combination that can solo all the same mobs I can with the same gear I have are also Ogre Shamans.

But be whatever you want to be - far be it for me to stop you. I enjoy being uniquely powerful compared to every other Shaman type on the server. This information is only included for posterity, and the value of truthful information.