Lets be real about P1999 PvP Server - Server Devs

[UrsusMajor]

Originally Posted by Foxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

race wars...

whites - barbarians, humans, ogres

blacks - dark elves, trolls, erudites

midgets - gnome, dwarf, halfling

elves - half elf, high elf, wood elf

Wait, midgets are a race?

[Foxx]

Originally Posted by UrsusMajor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait, midgets are a race?

yes, more like a subrace, but still a race

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by naez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

racists
hardcoded teams would be lame, should be guild vs. guild.

i dont want to be stuck with fgts I cant kill just because we both worship Quellious

We've already seen exactly how that works out multiple times in the past. Server population isn't viable for more than like 1-2 months due to reasons mentioned in original post. I assume the people making the server would rather have a more long term success than 1 month of anarchy followed by server closure or reset. There's no point even making a server if you're just going to recreate the failure of TZVZ.

Everything outlined in the original post is there to maximize server population, minimize amount of GM support required to resolve disputes, and prevent someone from taking over the server just by zerging it with a guild of 40 people on day 1. Except for possibly banning dupers or 3rd party app cheaters, no GM support would even be required.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only issue is every warrior and bard can choose Rallos Zek as a diety, meaning you could cockblock the good team by having halflings, dwarves, wood elfs, half-elfs, and barbarians go evil simply because they choose Rallos Zek

First of all, halfling warriors and a few other combinations could also choose Rallos Zek on the Sullon Zek server and go evil. There is no "blocking" the good team by doing that so I have no idea what you're talking about. They just become and ordinary member of the evil team. There is nothing special about them.

Second of all, you rarely even saw people play these combinations. I don't think I saw a single Rallos Zek halfling once that was over level 10. I definitely didn't see any 50+ ones but it wouldn't even matter if they existed. The only affect it has on the game is that virtually every player character in their starting town can attack them.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

which doesn't even make sense seeing as the evil team will be nothing but dark elf wizards and ogre shadowknights

This mostly comes down to individual player skill. I can log on a ranger or paladin and send shadowknights to bind point all day. SK isn't some god mode PvP class that you choose at character creation and automatically win every fight. If you're crammed into the entrance of sebillis or something like that, people are much more worried about getting the hell away from the 2h warrior with 20% hp, epic rogue, or monk with tstaff. If you're a caster, don't be a moron and zone in until all the melees do first, then we won't have to listen to all the caster whines on the forums.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so where would the evil halfling go level? He obviously can't level in misty, and most certainly cannot train in Neriak...

He has to run to freeport or innothule swamp or something like that. It's a PvP server. It's not supposed to be easy. There will be other evils in freeport along with goods too. Guard faction doesn't change on PvP server so you can train wherever you normally do.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the otherhand if it's "race wars" the evil team has a huge advantage by claiming two of the strongest warrior races, two of the strongest caster races, and their numbers will out-perform the good team by 3:1 ratios simply because no one wants to be a human shadowknight or wood elf warrior.

Warrior race doesn't matter much by level 55+ since kick stuns then. The advantage of being a smaller target balances out with the large race stat bonus.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My solution would be to start everyone off in a "hub" like the tutorial and place a custom NPC at the spawn point which allows you to choose between "good" and "evil" so if I choose to be an ogre warrior simply for the bonuses and I want to be "good" I state that to the NPC and he tags me accordingly and gives me the surname "the Good"

The whole point of a dark vs light type server is because it's just way more believable having trolls and ogres fighting halflings than it is to have races assigned to teams at random. You can easily tell who is and isn't on your team that way also.

If you did a non-good vs evil setup and just randomly put races on separate teams, what do you call it? The dwarf vs erudite server? The good vs evil one just has more appeal to it but either one is better in the long run than FFA.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At this point all you'd really need to do is refaction the cities guards/mercs/trainers to go along with those choices for example

Evil:
Paineel
Neriak
Oggok
Grobb
Freeport
Cabilis
Ak'Anon

Good:
Rivervale
Qeynos
Erudin
Halas
Felwithe
Kelethin
Kaladim

Depending on my choice in the hub I become either KoS to one sect of cities, and ally to the other. I then tell the flagging NPC where I wish to go based on my alignment and he transports me to a bind spot within my city of choice, I'm then bound and free to group and level with people that have similar alignment choices.

Refactioning every NPC in every single town in EQ is extremely unrealistic. That's just too much work to do, it would take too long, break every quest in the game and all the epic quests too. People probably want to start playing on this server before the year 2013 and server devs probably want to keep the code mostly the same as P1999 with the exception of flags for who can attack who.

If you ever want this server to come out, try not to suggest anything other than changing flags of what PC characters can attack one another based on race, diety, or whatever other variable without screwing with any NPC's. I'll add any viable alternatives to the original post that don't result in the server coming out 1 decade from now.

[Jigga]

Dark vs Light = A guild from both sides being on top.

Darks prevailing will just cause the lesser guilds on the light team to eithe reroll as dark or to form a zerg of Lights

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Jigga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Darks prevailing will just cause the lesser guilds on the light team to eithe reroll as dark or to form a zerg of Lights

There is nothing on the original post that would indicate a lopsided advantage to the dark team. Some would argue that it would be the exact opposite. Personally, I think it would be about even. It just depends what guilds choose what side.

All of these so called "disadvantages" to a team server are nothing in comparison to a FFA server collapsing after 1-2 months.

[Zakaton]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is nothing on the original post that would indicate a lopsided advantage to the dark team. Some would argue that it would be the exact opposite.

If Sullen Zek was any indication, things would be seriously lopsided in favor of the dark team.

[Macken]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're a caster, don't be a moron and zone in until all the melees do first, then we won't have to listen to all the caster whines on the forums.

Only whines on forums so far is melees lobbing to throw out levitate and root for the lulz.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We've already seen exactly how that works out multiple times in the past. Server population isn't viable for more than like 1-2 months due to reasons mentioned in original post. I assume the people making the server would rather have a more long term success than 1 month of anarchy followed by server closure or reset. There's no point even making a server if you're just going to recreate the failure of TZVZ.

Everything outlined in the original post is there to maximize server population, minimize amount of GM support required to resolve disputes, and prevent someone from taking over the server just by zerging it with a guild of 40 people on day 1. Except for possibly banning dupers or 3rd party app cheaters, no GM support would even be required.




First of all, halfling warriors and a few other combinations could also choose Rallos Zek on the Sullon Zek server and go evil. There is no "blocking" the good team by doing that so I have no idea what you're talking about. They just become and ordinary member of the evil team. There is nothing special about them.

Second of all, you rarely even saw people play these combinations. I don't think I saw a single Rallos Zek halfling once that was over level 10. I definitely didn't see any 50+ ones but it wouldn't even matter if they existed. The only affect it has on the game is that virtually every player character in their starting town can attack them.



This mostly comes down to individual player skill. I can log on a ranger or paladin and send shadowknights to bind point all day. SK isn't some god mode PvP class that you choose at character creation and automatically win every fight. If you're crammed into the entrance of sebillis or something like that, people are much more worried about getting the hell away from the 2h warrior with 20% hp, epic rogue, or monk with tstaff. If you're a caster, don't be a moron and zone in until all the melees do first, then we won't have to listen to all the caster whines on the forums.



He has to run to freeport or innothule swamp or something like that. It's a PvP server. It's not supposed to be easy. There will be other evils in freeport along with goods too. Guard faction doesn't change on PvP server so you can train wherever you normally do.



Warrior race doesn't matter much by level 55+ since kick stuns then. The advantage of being a smaller target balances out with the large race stat bonus.



The whole point of a dark vs light type server is because it's just way more believable having trolls and ogres fighting halflings than it is to have races assigned to teams at random. You can easily tell who is and isn't on your team that way also.

If you did a non-good vs evil setup and just randomly put races on separate teams, what do you call it? The dwarf vs erudite server? The good vs evil one just has more appeal to it but either one is better in the long run than FFA.





Refactioning every NPC in every single town in EQ is extremely unrealistic. That's just too much work to do, it would take too long, break every quest in the game and all the epic quests too. People probably want to start playing on this server before the year 2013 and server devs probably want to keep the code mostly the same as P1999 with the exception of flags for who can attack who.

If you ever want this server to come out, try not to suggest anything other than changing flags of what PC characters can attack one another based on race, diety, or whatever other variable without screwing with any NPC's. I'll add any viable alternatives to the original post that don't result in the server coming out 1 decade from now.

Let me come at your counter-arguments:

The issue with deity specific PvP is no one will roll halfling warriors following Karana, Dark elf mages probably wont roll Solusek Ro either, but it still belies the fact it "blurs" the team spectrum, and in a situation where people will pool 90% of the warrior population into ogres and 90% of the cleric population into dwarf it's hardly balanced and will only preclude to x-teaming, and immortal healing.

That pretty much covers all the counter-arguments you gave me about deity specific PvP, not to mention it's a coding nightmare.

Now you also stated "Refactioning every NPC in every single town in EQ is extremely unrealistic." No it is not, you can globalize factions and this was done several times on servers like Qeynos V. Freeport and several other customization projects, and I'm fairly certain refactioning entire NPC databases only took Secrets and Vile like an hours work?

Also epic NPC's have nothing to do with guard and trainer faction so I don't see how quests be broken? Even if factions are changed you're still able to turn in crushbone belts or gnollfangs just as easily as before barring that you are not KoS of course.

Again, something as minor as .pl editing, perl scripting or even globalizing factions would probably take someone like Secrets or Akkadius like 10 minutes to do, so I really do not know why you're pulling this 2013 thing out of your ass.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The issue with deity specific PvP is no one will roll halfling warriors following Karana

Neutral team's best tank was a halfling, karana warrior named Toodles. Your statement doesn't really make sense. You're obsessed with thinking Ogre SK's and Ogre warriors dominate all PvP when they don't.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in a situation where people will pool 90% of the warrior population into ogres and 90% of the cleric population into dwarf it's hardly balanced and

This is another nonsensical statement. Playing an ogre on a PvP server isn't some giant advantage, you're a giant target to get blown up. When we were fighting Heresy on TZVZ and someone said "KILL REXX", nobody ever replied with "Where is Rexx?".

Trolls on the other hand have regen which is an advantage but they also have 5 FIRE RESIST and are also big targets. Playing a character with 5 fire resist isn't that fun.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but it still belies the fact it "blurs" the team spectrum

Like I said, I never even saw a Rallos Zek halfling over level 10. Even if there are people playing them, they're like a novelty character that people immediately know their names and what team they're on.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

will only preclude to x-teaming, and immortal healing.

It was completely impossible to immortal heal on sullon zek. You can't heal the other team or buff them and there's no level limit for PvP. Can people stop smoking salvia before they post?

The only real xteaming you can do is using a character to train your own team which should probably be the only bannable rule for this server. I'm not talking about at a camp in Guk or something because GM's don't have time for that. I'm talking about someone logging on a level 60 neutral monk and using it to train a neutral raid over and over.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That pretty much covers all the counter-arguments you gave me about deity specific PvP, not to mention it's a coding nightmare.

Now you're just making stuff up. The thing you suggested involves way more work. For the one I listed on the original page, nothing on the server has to be altered at all except who can attack and heal each other.

You're also acting like PvP is town based, like everyone is a UO house fighter or something? You don't need to do anything to guard faction on a Dark vs Light server. All the evils will congregate in places like Grobb, if a good team player wastes his time factioning his way up somehow, it's still just him vs 20x as many evils if he goes into that city. It's still a suicide run.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No it is not, you can globalize factions and this was done several times on servers like Qeynos V. Freeport and several other customization projects, and I'm fairly certain refactioning entire NPC databases only took Secrets and Vile like an hours work?

Those servers probably didn't even have quests and like I already said, the server devs probably want to keep it as close to p1999 server code as possible.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Neutral team's best tank was a halfling, karana warrior named Toodles. Your statement doesn't really make sense. You're obsessed with thinking Ogre SK's and Ogre warriors dominate all PvP when they don't.



This is another nonsensical statement. Playing an ogre on a PvP server isn't some giant advantage, you're a giant target to get blown up. When we were fighting Heresy on TZVZ and someone said "KILL REXX", nobody ever replied with "Where is Rexx?".

Trolls on the other hand have regen which is an advantage but they also have 5 FIRE RESIST and are also big targets. Playing a character with 5 fire resist isn't that fun.



Like I said, I never even saw a Rallos Zek halfling over level 10. Even if there are people playing them, they're like a novelty character that people immediately know their names and what team they're on.





It was completely impossible to immortal heal on sullon zek. You can't heal the other team or buff them and there's no level limit for PvP. Can people stop smoking salvia before they post?

The only real xteaming you can do is using a character to train your own team which should probably be the only bannable rule for this server. I'm not talking about at a camp in Guk or something because GM's don't have time for that. I'm talking about someone logging on a level 60 neutral monk and using it to train a neutral raid over and over.



Now you're just making stuff up. The thing you suggested involves way more work. For the one I listed on the original page, nothing on the server has to be altered at all except who can attack and heal each other.

You're also acting like PvP is town based, like everyone is a UO house fighter or something? You don't need to do anything to guard faction on a Dark vs Light server. All the evils will congregate in places like Grobb, if a good team player wastes his time factioning his way up somehow, it's still just him vs 20x as many evils if he goes into that city. It's still a suicide run.




Those servers probably didn't even have quests and like I already said, the server devs probably want to keep it as close to p1999 server code as possible.

You're misconstruing everything, I'm not stating that I roll some ogre with 150 stamina and proceed to roflstomp everything from Innothule to East Karana in terms of being overpowered. I'm stating that because they start with 150 str/sta they're going to be the primo choice for tanking in PvE environments thus it will carry over to being the choice for PvP.

It's much easier to play an ogre warrior than say a gnome warrior simply because you get 50% more baseline HP and that is the allure and that is why the majority of the tanking population will be ogre, even on P99 now ogre's and trolls make up the majority of endgame tanks, and I've known only one barbarian during my time here actually tanking in fear.

This is where globalizing faction comes into play, if every player has an absolute choice of what side to be on and where to start, I can roll that ogre SK and start in Qeynos to level up quick off gnollfangs, I can roll that dwarf cleric and start in paineel if I so choose, which is a much better alternative to players than being confined to "good" team because you choose a wood-elf druid, or be confined to "evil" because you want a tanking class that has more than 75 Str/Sta

There also has to be a level limit in PvP, within +/- 10-15 levels, no one wants to deal with the mage who exploited his way to level 50 while the rest of the server is level 12 killing crocs as he continues to bolt his way through newbie zones time and time again.

My point I'm stressing is the server should be fun, and PvP should happen at all times, but it's stupid to confine people into X and Y teams especially on an emulator, and it's even more retarded to make it a FFA grief-fest by allowing level 60 casters to run through Oasis destroying derv camp after derv camp especially considering PvP should cause xp loss.