Question about lists for camps

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Waiting for a camp" is not the same thing as "waiting on a list". Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. Is pretty unequivocal and easily gamed.

Now we're getting pedantic. You said, literally "lists aren't really binding on P99." But, again literally, they are. And I have a quote from a GM saying as much.

Saying that people can choose not to make a list and just give the camp to their friend is entirely beside the point, because we weren't talking about giving camps to friends. The title of the thread is "Question about lists for camps".

You also claimed "Only the person camping the mob can decide to honor the list or not." Again, this just isn't true. Yes someone can avoid having a list in the first place, but IF they start a list and tell another player that they're on it, they are obligated (by the server rules, which a GM will enforce) to hand the camp over to them.

The only true thing you claimed was "Even if they honor the list but decide to leave/log before the next person arrives, someone else can come swoop in and snag the camp under you", and even that's misleading because it's very rare for someone to have a camp, start a list, tell another player they're next on the list, then suddenly disappear, and then someone else is waiting right at the spawn point, sees that happen, and takes the spawn. In that incredibly rare circumstance yes someone could "cut ahead" of you in line, but that's not at all the same thing as saying lists don't matter here.

It really feels to me like you read that one thread about lists that happened a few weeks ago, didn't get to the end of it, didn't understand the rules in the first place, and are now convinced you know everything about P99 rules regarding lists ... even when what you "know" is directly contradicted by GM quotes.

[DMN]

What a silly boy. So if I was intending on giving my friend the spawn instead of person X on the list I can sit there until I know the mob will respawn soon, then shoot the tell off to the dude who was supposed to get the camp and when the mob pops my friend is already there staking his claim to the site. But, but, but,but the list?!? Or maybe I went link dead after I got what I wanted and someone else came by and snagged it? Does the camp holder have to have a mgic wand tha ensures their internet connectivity? do tell.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What a silly boy. So if I was intending on giving my friend the spawn instead of person X on the list I can sit there until I know the mob will respawn soon, then shoot the tell off to the dude who was supposed to get the camp and when the mob pops my friend is already there staking his claim to the site. But, but, but,but the ist?!?

Ok first off, why on God's green earth would you even do that? If you're going to give a camp to your friend, and Bob walks up and says "can I get on the list?", why would you lie and tell Bob he's on the list, and then secretly give the camp to your friend? Any sane person would just say "sorry Bob, my friend Fred is next, but you're welcome to ask him about being next after."

But IF you lied to Bob, told him he was next on the list, and then let your friend have the camp ... realistically Bob would probably never know, which means no GM would be brought in, which means the rules aren't even relevant.

But IF Bob was secretly sitting there invis, and saw you give the camp to his friend after he told you that you could have it, you absolutely could petition, and all else being equal you would "win" (but that "all else being equal" part is important: remember, GMs adjudicate not just on the merits of cases, but also on other factors like how polite, or not, the players involved act).

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or maybe I went link dead after I got what I wanted and someone else came by and snagged it? Does the camp holder have to have a mgic wand tha ensures their internet connectivity? do tell.

We covered this scenario already. If the camp holder suddenly goes link dead, all bets are off. But again, the vast majority of the time if a player sits there for however many hours waiting for a spawn, the odds of their internet crapping out the exact moment they get the kill are extremely small. And barring that extremely unlikely situation, the vast vast majority of players are simply going to send a tell to whoever is next on the list after they kill the mob, because it takes almost no effort to do so and most people aren't psychopaths.

If the entirety of your weird obsession with non-existent list rules is coming from scenarios where people's Internet connections crap out at fantastically unlikely times ... well it's time to find a new weird obsession.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok first off, why on God's green earth would you even do that? If you're going to give a camp to your friend, and Bob walks up and says "can I get on the list?", why would you lie and tell Bob he's on the list, and then secretly give the camp to your friend ... you would just say "sorry Bob, my friend Fred is next, but you're welcome to ask him about being next."

Because you took advantage of some suckers who bought into the infallibility of a list.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But IF you lied to Bob, told him he was next on the list, and then let your friend have the camp ... realistically Bob would probably never know, which means no GM would be brought in, which means the rules aren't even relevant.

But was the list binding? Clearly not.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But if Bob was secretly sitting there invis, and saw you give the camp to his friend after he told you that you could have it, you absolutely could petition, and all else being equal you would "win" (but that "all else being equal" part is important: remember, GMs adjudicate not just on the merits of cases, but also on other factors like how polite, or not, the players involved act).

Doesn't work if they log out/go link dead. It'll be FTE.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because you took advantage of some suckers who bought into the infallibility of a list.

So all this insanity is revolving around a case where player #1 deliberately lies to player #2 (despite having absolutely no incentive to do so, and despite it clearly being against the rules) and gives a camp to player #3? Do you even play on P99? Has such a situation ever even happened to you? I've been here over half a decade, and not once have I ever had any player dispute regarding lists whatsoever, let alone a dispute where someone told me I could have a camp even though they knew they were giving it to someone else.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But was the list binding? Clearly not.

Again, even in this gonzo imaginary scenario you've concocted, it still is. If Bob lies to Fred and let's Sam take his camp, that absolutely is not allowed (again read the GM quote I posted above). Fred could petition and the GMs would (again, all else being equal) side with him.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Doesn't work if they log out/go link dead. It'll be FTE.

Once again, you're concocting these strange arbitrary 0.01% chance scenarios and using them as some sort of justification for why the rules don't apply. Again, I GRANT that if the list holder happens to go link dead right after they kill the mob, but before they have a chance to tell the next person on the list, AND someone else is sitting their on the spawn point, notices what happens, and decides to be a jerk, they CAN take the spawn.

But nothing in my previous paragraph translates to "lists aren't really binding on P99". Not even close.

P.S. This is quickly becoming a pointless flame war. I've already more than clarified what the actual server rules are, and provided evidence supporting my position. Go ahead and get the last word in if you want, but I'm going to bow out now and let others chime in (if that's even necessary).

[DMN]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So all this insanity is revolving around a case where player #1 deliberately lies to player #2 (despite having absolutely no incentive to do so, and despite it clearly being against the rules) and gives a camp to player #3? Do you even play on P99? Has such a situation ever even happened to you? I've been here over half a decade, and not once have I ever had any player dispute regarding lists whatsoever, let alone a dispute where someone told me I could have a camp even though they knew they were giving it to someone else.

Wow, so 1 is a valid sample size to you?

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, even in this gonzo imaginary scenario you've concocted, it still is. If Bob lies to Fred and let's Sam take his camp, that absolutely is not allowed (again read the GM quote I posted above). Fred could petition and the GMs would (again, all else being equal) side with him.

How's fred going to know he's been fucked over by Bob? Whooops my cable went out. Whoops my house was burning down. Whoops timmy fell down the well...agaiin

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once again, you're connecting these strange arbitrary 0.01% chance scenarios and using them as some sort of justification for why the rules don't apply. Again, I GRANT that if the list holder happens to go link dead right after they kill the mob, but before they have a chance to tell the next person on the list, AND someone else is sitting their on the spawn point, notices what happens, and decides to be a jerk, they CAN take the spawn.

But nothing in my previous paragraph translates to "lists aren't really binding on P99". Not even close.

P.S. This is quickly becoming a pointless flame war. I've already more than clarified what the actual server rules are, and provided evidence supporting my position. Go ahead and get the last word in if you want, but I'm going to bow out now and let others chime in (if that's even necessary).

Yo, is the book up?