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#1
11-11-2019, 06:42 AM
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All i know is if i was staff i'd be looking very hard at every manastone camped like this, camping EE just like camping out at family member who is in the hospital and sitting next to them level seriousness.
things that make u go hmmm. | ||
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#2
11-11-2019, 07:30 AM
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I know probably most the people in this thread are actually in the camp with me right now, so I just want to ask whats the solution? Because the past system was FFA first come first serve, and I can't really see a happy medium here for demand vs difficulty.
The staff haven't made this camp hard on us, we're doing that. The spawn rate / drop rate are contested by those with Live experience, but making it easier would IMO just make it so players that need ANY item in the future come to the camp. We'd see not just more manastones, but manastones as a bartering piece for a firepot bind, or sold at the cost of a firepot bind (20k) + some tip change for anyone that runs that FUTURE /list racket. Right now the majority are here for themselves, their future alts, or a friend. I can't see anything out of bounds for a classic server that bans boxing when it comes to friends sharing accounts. They're helping each other use a single character and gain an advantage FOR that character, sacrificing the advantage in every other scenario in the game that two players would gain playing together. There's only one manastone camp, but there are shorter /list items with harder criteria for those that meet the minimum level, and no one is complaining that two friends who show up at the same time and /list together gain an advantage in surviving a camp while gaining, potentially, DOUBLE the benefit of those without pals. If they put in the time. If players make X game mechanic more miserable for themselves, and there is no way of making X more enjoyable for all without removing an aspect of the very thing that drives them to engage in X, who wins then? The difference between this camp and literally every single raid target in the game is that those people who could care less about raid loot WANT this game changing item and the benefits, and fun, possible from having it. And they're just going to keep showing up and recruiting friends to help - like they do for every other bit of content in this game. Manastone access at 35 is already rather "punitive" for those that aren't able to grind through when ideal spots are camped or crowded during their play sessions, but making the /list feature available at 25 for Evil Eye would have had exactly the same result of attracting a crowd capable of the content and desirous of the rewards. There would have been a raid force down here instead of a small group - and the closer this camp gets to a raid force the sooner it will become exactly that - and rules will have to be made clear about some sort of Evileye Greenzone. =P I'd say that removing the distance limit for people over /list #5 for evil eye specificlaly will reduce the angst greatly. Rather than asking for the content to be further altered, just let it function like AC list or any other popular camp list where the person is informed they need to get their asses to the camp when the person ahead of them leaves. Or do the opposite, those not in the top 20 on the list CAN'T be in Guk and those not in the top 10 on the /list CAN'T be in the camp. If people are going to make this shit as obnoxious as the p99 raid scene, embrace it and remove the "friend" penalty people are complaining about by making it so those with actual friends that would help them run into arbitrary cut offs even when they list at the same time. Then make it so no 3 people from the same guild can be in the Top 5 at the same time - to just fuck with it further. Anything the staff can do to effectively limit the distribution of Manastones to people working together will just make the camp even less tolerable the more accessible the camp becomes to the general population. I have absolutely zero solutions to the "problem" besides removing the limit of range for players, which will just result in everyone listing that can. Thus requiring some sort of middle ground where a "group" listing is introduced and groups doing the camps have some internal order if they're allowed in "camp" zones for /list that reduces friction, or excluded otherwise because they lack the ability to productively interact with dangerous camps - or by debasing the experience of the content by turning it into something it was never meant to be - a mini-raid on trivial content for max level players who carry whoevers ahead of them in line. Except anything done to keep those gaming the system by NOT joining the list in any way makes the system ineffective, so everyone has to participate when in the vacinity of these camps. The more you try and force this game into a fair mold, the more it breaks, and the /list is an unhappy but tolerable medium as is for every camp BUT Manastone. Which is a camp so fucking fair it hurts. | ||
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Last edited by M.J.; 11-11-2019 at 07:35 AM..
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#3
11-11-2019, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Also I don't think anyone is arguing that the camp shouldn't be hard, it's just that the current system is likely going to get to the point where a single person won't be able to handle the wait time required to get the item. I don't think it's really a good idea to create a system that actively encourages account sharing, because there are serious risks involved with that.
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Mr. Irrelevant
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#4
11-11-2019, 08:54 AM
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From a human perspective I could see a /list cut off after 9 with a second list designed to randomly "reward" those on it a chance at joining a potentially 40 hour long camp. Which would be a cutoff those that design it probably wouldn't want to touch as they become like a blind bartender who is expected to keep track of who should be cut off for their "own" good - but more so for the bar owner and bar tenders potentially on the hook. We had a guy get the stone who said he felt it was bad for his health to stay up for over 30 hours, and I think leaving it up to players to keep at it - or not kill themselves - is probably the better stance. But like some poster said above about grown adults doing 20 hour camps, they're grown adults. No one has to camp a manastone, those that do just want whats at the end of the rainbow. | |||
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#5
11-11-2019, 09:24 AM
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When account sharing is an option at a camp like this it skews the difficulty of the camp, if there was no account sharing and everyone had to grind out their wait time the camp is fair, but when you add in account sharing, players who choose not to account share are at a severe disadvantage. Not only do account sharers have to spend less time individually at the camp, but they are able to cover a larger amount of time spent on the list. Two players who alternate 12 hour shifts can basically maintain a position on the list indefinitely, while a single player has an expiration date on the amount of time they can spend. If Devs are fine with players account sharing to get manastones that's their choice I guess, but it doesn't seem to fit with the goal of the list system, and punishes players who make smart choices by not sharing account info with others.
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Mr. Irrelevant
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#7
11-19-2019, 03:52 AM
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#10
11-11-2019, 07:47 AM
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I am solo on green, and its like impossible for me to get a MS as long there are people who share their accounts.
Sure I gonna try it and might make some trustfull friend who would do 1 camping shift for me while I am sleeping, but else I see no chance for me to get one. | ||
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