[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rotation talk was already squashed today by Rogean/Nilbog. They do not want a rotated server and will not allow GMs to enforce it. Raiding will remain competitive and we will need to find a way to play nicer while doing it.

What if we decided to rotate on our own? They gonna force people to fight over shit?

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What if we decided to rotate on our own? They gonna force people to fight over shit?

No but they won’t enforce a rotation which means any guild that forms, dissolves, or simply chooses to break the agreement can do so at any time. For this reason and for the sake of competition (make fun of me all you want), AG and Freedom have independently come to the conclusion that we do not want to be part of any sweeping rotation. Tunare, Ring War, Fear Golems, maybe ST golems is about as far as we want to take it. Riot is the guild pushing hardest for a full rotation, much to my surprise. They believe it’s in the best interest of the server and we believe it will harm it. Gotta find a way to keep it competitive without burdening GMs with petitions. It’s the only way forward.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No but they won’t enforce a rotation which means any guild that forms, dissolves, or simply chooses to break the agreement can do so at any time. For this reason and for the sake of competition (make fun of me all you want), AG and Freedom have independently come to the conclusion that we do not want to be part of any sweeping rotation. Tunare, Ring War, Fear Golems, maybe ST golems is about as far as we want to take it. Riot is the guild pushing hardest for a full rotation, much to my surprise. They believe it’s in the best interest of the server and we believe it will harm it. Gotta find a way to keep it competitive without burdening GMs with petitions. It’s the only way forward.

Whether or not it helps or harms the server depends on who you want to cater to. Rotating is classic, so is not rotating. Do you want to cater to the people who get off on denying people pixels and will bend/break any rule they possibly can to the point where if you are in a high end raid guild you absolutely have to have at least one if not multiple people running OBS at all times to catch the misdeeds?

Or do you want to cater to the people who are in favor of something the vast majority of the server is in favor of? This game is over 20 years old. Virtually none of us are in our teens/20's anymore. We're mostly in our 30's-40's and older and we have lives, families, pets, and responsibilities. We don't care if guild X happens to get the same pixels as us. It doesn't devalue our accomplishments. The powers that be have fostered a server meta that has caused the troubles the raid scene is now experiencing.

At some point you have to ask yourself "Am I the problem?" and when it comes to how the server is run I believe that's a resounding yes. I applaud Menden, Galach, and Medris for stepping up and finally doing something about it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rotation talk was already squashed today by Rogean/Nilbog. They do not want a rotated server and will not allow GMs to enforce it. Raiding will remain competitive and we will need to find a way to play nicer while doing it.

Citation needed... was this on the forums somewhere, or in game/Discord?

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Citation needed... was this on the forums somewhere, or in game/Discord?

Blue UN discord, confirmed by Galach. If Rog was willing to allow an NToV rotation then Braknar would have had his way.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blue UN discord, confirmed by Galach. If Rog was willing to allow an NToV rotation then Braknar would have had his way.

well they can't really do anything if all the players involved decide to rotate, rotations are classic as it turns out

[reznor_]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kittens has been getting stronger and stronger and can tackle almost all the content on the server solo at primetime except maybe Tunare / AoW, it's just that the neckbeard guilds have bigger zergs, especially during the off hours, and have more no-lifers willing to push the boundaries, whereas Kittens follow the rules almost to a fault at times and will concede at the drop of a hat.

The only thing that will fix the current situation is either an enforced rotation on end game content or instancing of end game raid zones, that's really all the can be done, any other solutions have proven to be temporary and become abandoned once the more aggressive neckbeards break off and form new guilds which nullify prior agreements. Its an endless cycle until the GMs / server management decides to finally go with the permanent solutions.

Kittens is strong, we’ve done raids with them in the past and they have some stellar players. However, their interpretation of “competitive” is unique.

[Duckwalk]

Originally Posted by reznor_ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kittens is strong, we’ve done raids with them in the past and they have some stellar players. However, their interpretation of “competitive” is unique.

The only real difference anyone has been able to identify between Kittens and the "raiding guilds" is a refusal to sock natural respawns. Kittens races for mobs late in window. They're right there in the mix taking down NToV mobs on EQ.

Maybe we should re-evaluted this ridiculous idea that "competition" is contigent upon who can stare at an empty screen the longest? It is that idea of competition that has gotten us to a place of 170+ man zergs and "alliances" and eventually bans afterall.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Duckwalk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only real difference anyone has been able to identify between Kittens and the "raiding guilds" is a refusal to sock natural respawns. Kittens races for mobs late in window. They're right there in the mix taking down NToV mobs on EQ.

Maybe we should re-evaluted this ridiculous idea that "competition" is contigent upon who can stare at an empty screen the longest? It is that idea of competition that has gotten us to a place of 170+ man zergs and "alliances" and eventually bans afterall.

I think the issue is you aren’t there week in and out creating petitions. You may think you are competing and I think you guys do awesome. But if you aren’t there creating the petitions and they want to solve this. Then what you think competition is doesn’t matter. All that matters is fixing the issue with the guilds that are present during this sock time you don’t like to be in.

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the issue is you aren’t there week in and out creating petitions. You may think you are competing and I think you guys do awesome. But if you aren’t there creating the petitions and they want to solve this. Then what you think competition is doesn’t matter. All that matters is fixing the issue with the guilds that are present during this sock time you don’t like to be in.

If we're there, but not creating petitions, aren't we doing it correctly then? Seems like the overabundance of petitions is why the three guilds were suspended in the first place.