Green Raid Rules Discussion...

[Bach]

Originally Posted by Gentry88 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What guild has 40 members raiding ? you think Seal team only have 40 members covering every 16 hour window?

(Sorry to use Seal Team as an example, not trying to be negative to guilds and how they compete, it is what it is currently)

Seal team zerg guild is not as much of an issue as insanely large windows.

As you said so yourself you do not need 100 people to kill a target.

The main problem competition faces is having literally 2mn to batphone a target and engage, is very hard

If we had 1h window instead of 16hrs we would be able to see some decent competition.

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by Bach [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seal team zerg guild is not as much of an issue as insanely large windows.

As you said so yourself you do not need 100 people to kill a target.

The main problem competition faces is having literally 2mn to batphone a target and engage, is very hard

If we had 1h window instead of 16hrs we would be able to see some decent competition.

Agree. Down with the megazergs. Whatever it takes. Exclusive locks. Bag limits. Shorter windows. Kill one concede one. C/R/FFA.

Megazerg guilds are the reason blue and green servers are extremely toxic right now. Not just inter-guild as in the UN, but intra-guild as well. A more sane competition ruleset goes a long way, as it allows guilds to turn down bad players / toxic people.

Right now that doesn't happen and the worst kinds of people tend to percolate to the top.

[Gentry88]

Originally Posted by Bach [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A 40 50 average guild is a zerg guild? Thanks for the input

There's a need to make it easier to compete, however what you're asking for is just to be given mob without having to compete, I can't see this happening.

The 3 bag limit encourages competition.

The shorter window encourages competition.

Your suggestion goes against the very spirit of that.

What you are looking for is instances content.

Also calling any guild larger than your a zerg guild shows how biased you are.

Normal guild raids in EQ are designed for 54 person, that the usual design of an encounter.

There's a need to make it easier to compete, however what you're asking for is just to be given mob without having to compete, I can't see this happening.

Having window limits will naturally move players into small groups, having smaller groups will most likely still outnumber if not match the number of content. Mobs will get killed, mobs will be contested. The mobs still spawns, and requests you to get to it first. It also request you bring enough people to complete the kill.

The 3 bag limit encourages competition.

I believe this is an alright idea if you keep the current 2 party competition theme. Steal Team Versus Everyone else ? (BL - King - Ven). I also think if you let each group stand on there own and not need to have mega partnership they would all have more fun.

The shorter window encourages competition.

This is programming change and I just don't take that into consideration. (Player agreements)

Your suggestion goes against the very spirit of that.

Spirit of what ? please give a bit more context

What you are looking for is instances content.

Nope (Easy answer)

Also calling any guild larger than your a zerg guild shows how biased you are.

Killing a raid target in under 60sec is what I picture as a zerg Guild. I think that's the first time I've said how I define it.. Thanks helping me clear that up. Our guild hasn't killed anything so I am unsure of how it would go.
Maybe we too are a zerg ... idk would need to see.


Again Thanks for your Trolling comments ! very productive!

[reznor_]

The meta in Velious literally calls for large forces (80-100) to handle targets. That is the reality. Sorry for you new-to-p99-because-green-is-a-thing folks. This is the way it is.

I've been part of a 40-person squad killing high value targets, and I've done the same with a 120 person squad. I am tired of people who don't understand the distinction between the two and why we are where we are.

We (the players) did not cause this. The server Admins did. The dragons are rooted and different tactics are called for.

It would be one thing to talk shit about a zerg guild back when FTE locks or unrooted dragons were a thing. Now, that's who succeeds across the board, and the players/leaders of these guilds didn't have anything to do with the rooting.

[Gentry88]

Originally Posted by reznor_ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The meta in Velious literally calls for large forces (80-100) to handle targets. That is the reality. Sorry for you new-to-p99-because-green-is-a-thing folks. This is the way it is.

I've been part of a 40-person squad killing high value targets, and I've done the same with a 120 person squad. I am tired of people who don't understand the distinction between the two and why we are where we are.

We (the players) did not cause this. The server Admins did. The dragons are rooted and different tactics are called for.

It would be one thing to talk shit about a zerg guild back when FTE locks or unrooted dragons were a thing. Now, that's who succeeds across the board, and the players/leaders of these guilds didn't have anything to do with the rooting.

Thanks for your comment, I agree on blue there is a level of need to have enough people to complete a task based on rule sets. That being said, if we work out a solution on green maybe we can enjoy the old days of NTOV racing (One of, if not the most fun moments in my p99 history is NTOV racing).

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by reznor_ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The meta in Velious literally calls for large forces (80-100) to handle targets. That is the reality. Sorry for you new-to-p99-because-green-is-a-thing folks. This is the way it is.

I've been part of a 40-person squad killing high value targets, and I've done the same with a 120 person squad. I am tired of people who don't understand the distinction between the two and why we are where we are.

We (the players) did not cause this. The server Admins did. The dragons are rooted and different tactics are called for.

It would be one thing to talk shit about a zerg guild back when FTE locks or unrooted dragons were a thing. Now, that's who succeeds across the board, and the players/leaders of these guilds didn't have anything to do with the rooting.

Yea the problem is the rules. The players are just going to do what they have to. I don't fault people for forming up 120 person squads because it's become the only way to be remotely competitive.

Sadly the rules and resultant toxicity will exist as long as the staff adheres to the 'every guild must agree' mentality. By trying to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. Some kind of majority should be sufficient to make improvements.

[Bach]

Originally Posted by Gentry88 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's a need to make it easier to compete, however what you're asking for is just to be given mob without having to compete, I can't see this happening.

Having window limits will naturally move players into small groups, having smaller groups will most likely still outnumber if not match the number of content. Mobs will get killed, mobs will be contested. The mobs still spawns, and requests you to get to it first. It also request you bring enough people to complete the kill.

The 3 bag limit encourages competition.

I believe this is an alright idea if you keep the current 2 party competition theme. Steal Team Versus Everyone else ? (BL - King - Ven). I also think if you let each group stand on there own and not need to have mega partnership they would all have more fun.

The shorter window encourages competition.

This is programming change and I just don't take that into consideration. (Player agreements)

Your suggestion goes against the very spirit of that.

Spirit of what ? please give a bit more context

What you are looking for is instances content.

Nope (Easy answer)

Also calling any guild larger than your a zerg guild shows how biased you are.

Killing a raid target in under 60sec is what I picture as a zerg Guild. I think that's the first time I've said how I define it.. Thanks helping me clear that up. Our guild hasn't killed anything so I am unsure of how it would go.
Maybe we too are a zerg ... idk would need to see.


Again Thanks for your Trolling comments ! very productive!

You picture it wrong.

A zerg guild is a guild that has more player than the encounter it is designed for.

54 is the number of people the raid even have been designed for.

Between 54 an 72 you are within range, above that is zerging.


Suggesting a 48hrs lockout upon killing a raid mob goes against the spirit of competition, killing a single mob shouldn't lock anyone out for 2 days, it's a ridiculous idea.

Lowering the windows and adding a bag limit to key jobs (VP and ST keys) is more than enough to foster healthy competition on green server.

That said I wouldn't be against a quarterly target rotation like they have on blue.

Lastly, calling a troll anyone disagreeing with you doesn't help your argument.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Gentry88 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe this is an alright idea if you keep the current 2 party competition theme. Steal Team Versus Everyone else ? (BL - King - Ven). I also think if you let each group stand on there own and not need to have mega partnership they would all have more fun.

This already happens, Kingdom has been an active solo entity since before Plane of Sky was released. We raid w 35-60 ish.

I mean this in the nicest way, you should do a bit more research before painting so many guilds w broad strokes as you have.

[Anarke]

I posted this in the UN but I will repost it here as well.

First of all even with there not having been an earthquake for months before Monday every 7d target was still within 48 hours of each other. This is because of math. Even with a 16 hour window on a 7d spawn over time that spawn time is going to normalize right back to when the original spawn time was. You aren’t going to see a dragon that spawned Saturday suddenly drift into Wednesday. So your proposal effectively means every guild can only kill one 7d target a week. For the lower tier targets that small guilds would be going for those mobs could be potentially be up for days and would certainly drift further and further away from the spawn of the more desired targets that are killed quickly every week. As soon as a lesser target drifted past that 48 hour window the bigger guilds would immediately start killing it every week locking out the smaller guilds permanently from that target. So really your proposal doesn’t solve any of the issues and doesn’t allow smaller guilds any long term opportunities.

As far as sky is concerned your proposal doesn’t make a lot of sense there either. Giving every guild a sky slot doesn’t really do much if most guilds can’t clear all of sky anyway. Multiple guilds banding together to try to clear all of sky would make more sense but it’s hard to argue a joint guild raid should get a full sky slot without even knowing if they are capable of clearing the entire zone. You mention so many guilds having sky slots that a single guild only goes to sky every 2 or 3 weeks. So in your proposal 15-20 guilds have sky slots, but less then half of those are even capable of clearing all of sky by themselves. What’s the reasoning for having islands 5-8 up for up to a week at time because guilds that can’t clear them have full sky slots? Sky seems to be working pretty well and there is a process in place for new guilds getting slots.

[Gentry88]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This already happens, Kingdom has been an active solo entity since before Plane of Sky was released. We raid w 35-60 ish.

I mean this in the nicest way, you should do a bit more research before painting so many guilds w broad strokes as you have.

I would agree I'm painting broad. poking ay people personally is not the plan. I have also said if I use any examples it is not any slander to you as a group at all. Some of my Examples may not be painting the exact situation on the ground happing now. but to give comparisons.

Thanks!