Give the people what they want! Luclin!

[Malikail]

Originally Posted by Tenloar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I too would want to see more expansions like SoL, PoP, LDoN LoY and such... I dont think the majority would want that? But did anyone stop and think maybe the legal agreement that was made woudn't allow them to go beyond Velious?

People labor under this myth that there's leagal agreement that maybe there is but it can't be enforced. Years ago Sony and Lucas lost the court case over Star Wars Galaxies. In essence the ruling was that they sold us the right to use the server software when they sold us the client. As long as they're not making money off of it by charging us a monthly fee they can run whatever they want of the original content and Sony or daybreak or whatever they call themselves now can't do anything about it legally and there is no reason to have an agreement.

I donated heavily to the legal fund to fight that case feel free to Google it.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Malikail [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People labor under this myth that there's leagal agreement that maybe there is but it can't be enforced. Years ago Sony and Lucas lost the court case over Star Wars Galaxies. In essence the ruling was that they sold us the right to use the server software when they sold us the client. As long as they're not making money off of it by charging us a monthly fee they can run whatever they want of the original content and Sony or daybreak or whatever they call themselves now can't do anything about it legally and there is no reason to have an agreement.

I donated heavily to the legal fund to fight that case feel free to Google it.

The staff said there’s some sort of agreement but have never given specifics on it.

Wasn’t the ruling in that case about the literal server and client software and not the actual game IP?

[Malikail]

Originally Posted by Tenloar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I too would want to see more expansions like SoL, PoP, LDoN LoY and such... I dont think the majority would want that? But did anyone stop and think maybe the legal agreement that was made woudn't allow them to go beyond Velious?

People labor under this myth that there's legal agreement qnd maybe there is but it can't be enforced. Years ago Sony and Lucas lost the court case over Star Wars Galaxies. In essence the ruling was that they sold us the right to use the server software when they sold us the client. As long as they're not making money off of it by charging us a monthly fee they can run whatever they want of the original content and Sony or daybreak or whatever they call themselves now can't do anything about it legally and there is no reason to have an agreement.

I donated heavily to the legal fund to fight that case feel free to Google it.

[Keza]

The main reasons people hate SoL is because of the graphics upgrade combined with their declining interest resulting in their eventual evacuation to WoW. I think that launched during OoW? I know that seems like a long time after but remember how quickly they chucked out Xpacs back then. I personally recall quitting EQ and just reading books until WoW came out. That was also the last time I read a book. I mean I enjoyed Mercedes Lackey's books but there's only so much time one can dedicate to entertainment and apparently Disney's dogshit is more important to me. Alright, I don't have an excuse for that one.

Anyway, SoL isn't much different from the rest of the game. It's PoP that heavily changes the game with the effective removal of druids/wizards via teleport books in every other zone, but SoL did add KeI and SoE I believe. Big mistakes, but ones that were exacerbated heavily by the PoP books resulting in easy access buff-hubs for 3 hour long remote powerlevels. Without PoP the buffs are still OP but there's not a literal economy based around buffing people. Also that could be removed by the anti-classic inability to group buff low levels. Which I'd be for. Just saying.

I'd enjoy it, but it's their emu so I can hardly complain about what the people want.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Keza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main reasons people hate SoL is because of the graphics upgrade combined with their declining interest resulting in their eventual evacuation to WoW. I think that launched during OoW? I know that seems like a long time after but remember how quickly they chucked out Xpacs back then. I personally recall quitting EQ and just reading books until WoW came out. That was also the last time I read a book. I mean I enjoyed Mercedes Lackey's books but there's only so much time one can dedicate to entertainment and apparently Disney's dogshit is more important to me. Alright, I don't have an excuse for that one.

Anyway, SoL isn't much different from the rest of the game. It's PoP that heavily changes the game with the effective removal of druids/wizards via teleport books in every other zone, but SoL did add KeI and SoE I believe. Big mistakes, but ones that were exacerbated heavily by the PoP books resulting in easy access buff-hubs for 3 hour long remote powerlevels. Without PoP the buffs are still OP but there's not a literal economy based around buffing people. Also that could be removed by the anti-classic inability to group buff low levels. Which I'd be for. Just saying.

I'd enjoy it, but it's their emu so I can hardly complain about what the people want.

I mean Luclin basically did something very similar to PoK, PoK just made it instant teleports instead of having to wait at a wizard spire for a periodic teleport. But it still made Druids and Wizard ports mostly obsolete. The Bazaar was also a terrible addition. Plus Paludal Caverns making every other newbie zone obsolete.

I would be open to the addition of SoL AAs and PoP raids, but beyond that those two expansions sucked.

[Keza]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean Luclin basically did something very similar to PoK, PoK just made it instant teleports instead of having to wait at a wizard spire for a periodic teleport. But it still made Druids and Wizard ports mostly obsolete. The Bazaar was also a terrible addition. Plus Paludal Caverns making every other newbie zone obsolete.

I would be open to the addition of SoL AAs and PoP raids, but beyond that those two expansions sucked.

Dru/Wiz were technically obsolete as soon as PoH/S became obsolete due to the classes being trash, but the convenience of PoP outperformed Dial-A-Port and the Nexus by an amount indescribable by human language.

I mentioned Bazaar in my edit which you didn't see because I immediately removed it due to not wanting to start a flamefest but frankly the Bazaar was an irrelevant non-problem. It's for the people who are really into NFTs and think being a gypsy is important to their life. For everyone else (99.99% of humans) they just want to sell the shit they happened to collect. They can still auction if they want to. The Bazaar centralized something that was otherwise decentralized and offered people who didn't want to haggle prices a way to not haggle prices. Any complaints are subjective.

I'm not sure PC is worth mentioning. It's a typical anomoly, if that makes any sense. Should Crushbone or Unrest be nerfed? Eh. Aren't they all OPAF? You can PL the shit out of someone in Uguk. Shouldn't it be nerfed? Many zones are OP. I can't attest to the quality of SoL because my computer was shit. I liked PoP though. If surface level evaluations of the xpacs are all we're doing then I guess that's it. I liked it.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Keza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dru/Wiz were technically obsolete as soon as PoH/S became obsolete due to the classes being trash, but the convenience of PoP outperformed Dial-A-Port and the Nexus by an amount indescribable by human language.

I mentioned Bazaar in my edit which you didn't see because I immediately removed it due to not wanting to start a flamefest but frankly the Bazaar was an irrelevant non-problem. It's for the people who are really into NFTs and think being a gypsy is important to their life. For everyone else (99.99% of humans) they just want to sell the shit they happened to collect. They can still auction if they want to. The Bazaar centralized something that was otherwise decentralized and offered people who didn't want to haggle prices a way to not haggle prices. Any complaints are subjective.

I'm not sure PC is worth mentioning. It's a typical anomoly, if that makes any sense. Should Crushbone or Unrest be nerfed? Eh. Aren't they all OPAF? You can PL the shit out of someone in Uguk. Shouldn't it be nerfed? Many zones are OP. I can't attest to the quality of SoL because my computer was shit. I liked PoP though. If surface level evaluations of the xpacs are all we're doing then I guess that's it. I liked it.

None of those zones are anywhere analogous to PC. PC you can basically PL yourself to like level 20; it's the antithesis of EQ. Sure, you can get PLed through those levels elsewhere, but you have to get someone to do it; you have to interact with people.

Bazaar is shitty because progression in EQ is usually about sacrificing progression in some other aspect of the game (at least pre-60). Sure, there are some camps that are good for XP and plat at the same time, but not a massive amount. So you want to sell that loot you have for max value? Then go sit there and auction it; or if you don't want to spend much time selling then sell it as a discount and get out of there as quick as you can and get back to XPing. I liked that a lot of the time classic EQ required you to make choices about what you wanted to prioritize in the game that day. The other thing I didn't like about the Bazaar was the removal of player created auction hubs; it was awesome how people on different servers just organically created a hub (commonly EC, but sometimes GFay, NFP, etc.). I like that sort of world shaping choice being made by players, not designers who decided "here's a centralized auction zone for everyone that can be reached super easily with little effort by the player."

PoK was one of the worst things to happen to the game (I think the Nexus was terrible also). One of the things that makes classic EQ feel more immersive is the feeling of the world being large. The smaller you make the world feel via PoK and the Nexus, the less fun and immersive the world becomes.

[Keza]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None of those zones are anywhere analogous to PC. PC you can basically PL yourself to like level 20; it's the antithesis of EQ. Sure, you can get PLed through those levels elsewhere, but you have to get someone to do it; you have to interact with people.

Bazaar is shitty because progression in EQ is usually about sacrificing progression in some other aspect of the game (at least pre-60). Sure, there are some camps that are good for XP and plat at the same time, but not a massive amount. So you want to sell that loot you have for max value? Then go sit there and auction it; or if you don't want to spend much time selling then sell it as a discount and get out of there as quick as you can and get back to XPing. I liked that a lot of the time classic EQ required you to make choices about what you wanted to prioritize in the game that day. The other thing I didn't like about the Bazaar was the removal of player created auction hubs; it was awesome how people on different servers just organically created a hub (commonly EC, but sometimes GFay, NFP, etc.). I like that sort of world shaping choice being made by players, not designers who decided "here's a centralized auction zone for everyone that can be reached super easily with little effort by the player."

PoK was one of the worst things to happen to the game (I think the Nexus was terrible also, despite it still requiring a dru/wiz to quickly access). One of the things that makes classic EQ feel more immersive is the feeling of the world being large. The smaller you make the world feel via PoK and the Nexus, the less fun and immersive the world becomes.

You make it sound like it's simple to PL yourself to 20. Maybe it is depending on perspective. I PL'd my own Ench to 16 with DF belts; years prior to SoL mind you. Slight different though when you don't need another human. I was PL'd in PC many times on live, which I didn't do it by myself. PC is bullshit because of poor balance in regards to classes that can PL being OP at PL'ing, not explicitly because PC itself is bullshit. Two different things, and I'm not against un-classic changes. That said, the Nexus was actually a boon for Dru/Wiz as it gave them a purpose otherwsie unneeded. You needed to visit the spires to go to Nexus. When PoK came along that purpose was removed because every other zone had a book.

The argument about Bazaar is equivalent to spending time doing nothing. Is it a good thing that you have to spend your actual life auctioning your gear in a fictional game? No. I don't think so. Is it meaningful to spend your time spamming shift+^? Not really, but The Bazaar, while not social, offers you the opportunity to not waste your actual real-life life in which you will die and that will be the end. I love the EC tunnel as much as anybody, despite it effectively being EQ's asshole. I love the social aspect of MMOs. I love democracy. /lightsaber. But there's a realistic limit in which you can expect someone to waste their time. Why do they need to be sitting at the keyboard in order to make a sale? Sales aside, why should your consumers be terrified of trainers pulling air elementals, griffons or Snape himelf to the tunnel? It's pretty to look at objectively, but ugly to look at subjectively.

I like MMOs being social experiences, and by that definition I technically hate the Bazaar, but I'm also incredibly drunk during both of these responses and can't find a reason for why "classic" mechanics can't be slightly changed to benefit everyone. I reread this once or twice but so drunk. Gave up. Sorry.

[Daffan]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None of those zones are anywhere analogous to PC. PC you can basically PL yourself to like level 20; it's the antithesis of EQ. Sure, you can get PLed through those levels elsewhere, but you have to get someone to do it; you have to interact with people.

Bazaar is shitty because progression in EQ is usually about sacrificing progression in some other aspect of the game (at least pre-60). Sure, there are some camps that are good for XP and plat at the same time, but not a massive amount. So you want to sell that loot you have for max value? Then go sit there and auction it; or if you don't want to spend much time selling then sell it as a discount and get out of there as quick as you can and get back to XPing. I liked that a lot of the time classic EQ required you to make choices about what you wanted to prioritize in the game that day. The other thing I didn't like about the Bazaar was the removal of player created auction hubs; it was awesome how people on different servers just organically created a hub (commonly EC, but sometimes GFay, NFP, etc.). I like that sort of world shaping choice being made by players, not designers who decided "here's a centralized auction zone for everyone that can be reached super easily with little effort by the player."

PoK was one of the worst things to happen to the game (I think the Nexus was terrible also). One of the things that makes classic EQ feel more immersive is the feeling of the world being large. The smaller you make the world feel via PoK and the Nexus, the less fun and immersive the world becomes.

There is a simple solution to your PoK problem.

Custom Fixes.

But, instead of having the ultimate EQ+ experience (not implying PoP is btw, more a generic statement) that is possible, instead play an attempted 1:1 re-creation for sake of "nostalgia" or purity whatever that isn't even true in 2022 anyway.

[Zoolander]

Originally Posted by Ankara99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The people demand justice, they demand the Snake Temple and Fungus grove.

yeah sure, after the merge