P99 is a Meritocracy, not a Democracy

[slard271]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://web.archive.org/web/20010302...t/aradune.html

It's convenient that you stopped the boldface of "less competition" right before "for camp sites." Gimme a break, are raid mobs "camp sites?"

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by slard271 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's convenient that you stopped the boldface of "less competition" right before "for camp sites." Gimme a break, are raid mobs "camp sites?"

Haven't you camped out at a zoneline with 70 of your closest friends while waiting for hours upon hours for the boss monster to make its appearance before?

[SantagarBrax]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://web.archive.org/web/20010302...t/aradune.html

Ahh you chose to completely ignore the context of this interview and the reality of p99.

<Aradune> "..we're hoping there will simply be less crowding and therefore less competition.." Is that the case here on p99?

<Aradune> "EQ, though, is a social game, based on interdependence in many ways." You've just proven the point I was making. This game, the very best parts of it, rely upon interdependence with one another. You, nor any other player, hast the right to dictate less interaction with other people on the server simply because you don't like it.

<Aradune> "I'd try to positively address some of the following problems: camping, players outleveling their friends, kill stealing, etc.....But I won't say how [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] "

Again, you choose to ignore the context as well as the vision for the future that Brad was attempting. He never knew there would be any time locked server based upon what many consider the best Everquest experience timeline ever.

You are neglecting the time locked server that you play on, the very reason for being here. If you truly wanted no interaction outside of those you want to play with, you'd be on Live or another server instead of here and agreeing with those that want less interaction.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The entire design of the game is competition based. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Brad, Steve, and Bill..along with all of the other dev's from said era.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000623...y2_Page1.shtml

Brad McQuaid Interview - Day 2, Page 1 (11-9-99)

Arr: EQ is by far the most popular Massively Multi-player On-line RPG, what do you think has been one of the biggest keys to it's success?

Brad: Hmm... I think it's a combination of... well with EverQuest, there is a short term and a long term focus, and I think we, in terms of bringing a player in and getting him or her really into the game and addicted and committed to playing the game do pretty well at that. There is that first hook of bringing them in and attracting them and the second part is keeping them playing. And I think we pulled that off. We achieved both of those really well. The first thing is bringing them in is the graphics. I think it’s a very immersive world and I think we really pulled off the 3d environment pretty well. A lot of people said it couldn't be done, you couldn't have a massively multi-player 3d game. And with the multiple camera views and the fantastic artists we have on the team and the world builders and the real stark contrast between the different areas of the world, I really think it makes people want to explore. They really feel like they're there. I think that sucks people in and gets them really interested. And then what keeps them playing is the cooperative nature of the game. Where as some of our competition in the past focused more on player versus player and really felt that, well, I've heard statements like to have a community you need to have that kind of conflict, which I don't agree with. Instead we focused on cooperation and people meeting friends on-line and going out in parties together and working together -- those friendships and that cooperation keeps them playing. And then there’s all the stuff that keeps people playing any RPG: character development, acquiring items, and treasure, and stuff like that. I think all of these points together is what brings people in and keeps them playing.

[Arvan]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://web.archive.org/web/20000623...y2_Page1.shtml

Wow this totally smashes OP's argument. Love it.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The entire design of the game is competition based. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Brad, Steve, and Bill..along with all of the other dev's from said era.

Didn't read the rest of this trashfire thread but just wanted to point out that lack of sufficient tech/knowledge/foresight at the time of EQ's development to launch with instances does NOT equal intention to create a competitive (lol) pve mmo. EQ was mostly first of its kind. A lot of shit happened just by accident and they had no way to predict how popular it would become and what measures people would go to just to monopolize dragon pixels. I've seen this retarded argument used by the pro EQ neckbeardery crowd several times and it has absolutely no basis in reality. EQ devs (including Brad and several others from the original team) were still working on EQ when instances were first added. They would have added them sooner if the tech at the time could support it. It wasn't intentionally left out cause they thought poopsocking was a cool gameplay feature. You have to be braindead to believe that.

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't read the rest of this trashfire thread but just wanted to point out that lack of sufficient tech/knowledge/foresight at the time of EQ's development to launch with instances does NOT equal intention to create a competitive (lol) pve mmo. EQ was mostly first of its kind. A lot of shit happened just by accident and they had no way to predict how popular it would become and what measures people would go to just to monopolize dragon pixels. I've seen this retarded argument used by the pro EQ neckbeardery crowd several times and it has absolutely no basis in reality. EQ devs (including Brad and several others from the original team) were still working on EQ when instances were first added. They would have added them sooner if the tech at the time could support it. It wasn't intentionally left out cause they thought poopsocking was a cool gameplay feature. You have to be braindead to believe that.

The original EQ devs put variance into the game (not on day 1 launch, but later) to combat socking. It's not enough deterrance for a time-locked server like P99.

That being said, GMs also didn't create and police rotations on live either. It was something more akin to rolltation on most servers. You did have to show up with a force, pixels weren't just handed out to guilds for existing.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The original EQ devs put variance into the game (not on day 1 launch, but later) to combat socking. It's not enough deterrance for a time-locked server like P99.

That being said, GMs also didn't create and police rotations on live either. It was something more akin to rolltation on most servers. You did have to show up with a force, pixels weren't just handed out to guilds for existing.

They 100% did police rotations on some servers. Some servers didn't though. I think it came down to the GM's discretion and each server handled it differently. They acknowledged very early on that socking was a problem and not what they wanted to encourage. If P99 style behavior was a thing back in those days I'd bet my life savings they would have stepped in to change it in some fashion. It was a bit more tame back then. The fact that it's been allowed to continue like it has for as long as it has is kind of disgusting honestly.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instances weren't added until LDoN, the original designers were absolutely not working on the game at that time. Brad was working on Vanguard, which did not have instances. It only had sharding for a single dungeon in the game. EQ did intend to have some form of competition, hence why the "whoever does the most damage gets the exp/loot" was in the game. They could have simply had it as whichever group hits a MOB first automatically gets the reward, it's not like they didn't know about it, Everquest was based on MUD's, which had already tried all kinds of things regarding this issue.

"Sharding" was the best they could do at the time. They openly said instances would have been done sooner had it not been a technical limitation. Regarding most dmg for loot. The options are basically first to tag (FTE) or most dmg (DPS race) and neither option is great but short of instances or GM enforced rotations it's about the best they could do. Given the options I think DPS race mechanic is better than FTE but neither is ideal. At the end of the day one thing is EXTREMELY obvious to me. The kind of behavior exhibited on P99 from it's launch til now is NOT the intention and never has been the intention and to think otherwise is nothing short of delusion. To look at P99 raid scene and go "Ahh yes Brad's vision" is fucking insanity.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

just wanted to point out that lack of sufficient tech/knowledge/foresight at the time of EQ's development to launch with instances does NOT equal intention to create a competitive (lol) pve mmo. EQ was mostly first of its kind. A lot of shit happened just by accident and they had no way to predict how popular it would become and what measures people would go to just to monopolize dragon pixels. EQ devs (including Brad and several others from the original team) were still working on EQ when instances were first added. They would have added them sooner if the tech at the time could support it.

Instances weren't added until LDoN, the original designers were absolutely not working on the game at that time. Brad was working on Vanguard, which did not have instances. It only had sharding for a single dungeon in the game. EQ did intend to have some form of competition, hence why the "whoever does the most damage gets the exp/loot" was in the game. They could have simply had it as whichever group hits a MOB first automatically gets the reward, it's not like they didn't know about it, Everquest was based on MUD's, which had already tried all kinds of things regarding this issue.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone is allowed their opinion. However, I don't share my opinions to the rest of the server, then force them to conform by decree . That is blatant totalitarianism.

It could be described as totalitarianism to an extent if staff imposed restrictions across the board and started banning/suspending parts of the community for disagreeing with their decisions. But guild leaders deliberating and eventually unifying to speak on behalf of their members is an example of representative democracy. You and your former guild leaders/speakers are in the minority and have been dating back to before the original, much smaller guild was renamed.

Originally Posted by SabtagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I, and those whom agree with me, are not "forcing" our playstyle upon the rest of server. This is the natural evolution of what would have been if the classic era was time-locked.

In a way, you are forcing your playstyle on the rest of the server because your playstyle directly conflicts with, disputes, or flat out disregards the rules. By breaking those rules and denying responsibility for each offense, you force other PVE guilds to choose between engaging in PVP behavior or losing out altogether because abiding by the rules puts them at a disadvantage (or opting out of endgame altogether).

Also, even without custom content, blue is not a time-locked server. It has evolved over the years, making some non-classic changes out of necessity thanks in large part to those who have a playstyle similar to your own. It's reasonable to expect more changes in the future, or at least consider it as a possibility given the server's history.

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe competition is too and the proof is in the pudding here on P99 Blue.

Scripting, autofiring, training, file altering, ruleslawyering, killing one conceding two. Blood pudding?

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that artificial limiting of interaction between people/guilds is the main culprit.

The PVP server has very few artificial limits, ideal for competitive diehards.

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my opinion, this interaction is the premiere magical component of any MMO - The human spirit.

It also creates opportunities for pretty dehumanizing behavior. Being on call for hours at a time only to be screamed at for one simple mistake doesn't exactly showcase the magic of the human spirit.

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one should ever limit interaction in an MMO and for the life of me, I don't understand why you can't see this or respect this golden rule. This is a hill I'm willing to die on.

PVE limits interaction and it was heavily favored even by beta testers, so much so that those who wanted PVP questioned whether dedicated servers would even be included for it since they were beginning to see features like the PK tagging system. If one of two players doesn't turn in their PK book, /duel, or /guildwar, there is no PVP outside of arenas, none of which have hills to die on. Also, the golden rule might have something to do with why people can't respect limitless interaction as a golden rule.

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Leadership from all of Guilds participating in the Draft attempted to steamroll this through in a few short weeks without giving people the opportunity contemplate it, come to a determination, let alone voice their conclusions to their leaders. That's super shady. I imagine most guild members weren't even aware of this unless they happened to stumble into the UN discord to see it occurring.

In what world would guild leaders not jump at the chance to tell their members? Put up a poll and see how long it takes for the majority of players to contemplate this change and vote.