Balance the Classes by Moving Existing Abilities

[Knuckle]

Originally Posted by Kich867 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really think the only two or three classes that need genuine updates are Warriors, Wizards, and Rangers.

Warriors need some function that generates threat so that they can do their job without relying on proc weapons to shore up a game design flaw.

Wizards don't need clarity, if anything reduce the cooldown and improve spells like Harvest to help them get mana back. But more importantly, the fact that Wizards are just super clunky in groups is their primary issue. They deal damage in massive chunks which isn't conducive to group-play and even if they just cast one spell per mob they're running OOM with an efficient group. And if they only cast one spell per mob they're probably far below the damage output of any melee in the party on that mob.

Reduce the threat of Wizard spells and let them cast Harvest like every 1.5-2 minutes or something.

And for Rangers: Bows should function like 2-handers scaling off of Dexterity and the "Deal double damage to stationary non-rooted targets" effect should be in place from level 1 for them instead of...what is it..like 52 or something? That's all. Nerf Trueshot if you need to but just let me live my bow dps ranger fantasy.

Warriors not having snap aggro while supporting the highest mitigation is a very everquest thing that should stay in game as is.

[Kich867]

Originally Posted by Knuckle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors not having snap aggro while supporting the highest mitigation is a very everquest thing that should stay in game as is.

If anything, Knights should be better at mitigation than they are. Warriors, baseline, cannot do their job. I'm not talking about the current understanding of the game, we all know how to get around it, I don't care about that.

If a group of new players decided to spin up a few characters, and someone picks a Warrior thinking they'll be the tank, they're in for a bad time. The threat mechanics in the game are completely asinine and it is inexcusable that Warriors can't actually tank in the overwhelming majority of the game's content at a baseline.

[Tewaz]

Originally Posted by Kich867 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If a group of new players decided to spin up a few characters, and someone picks a Warrior thinking they'll be the tank, they're in for a bad time. The threat mechanics in the game are completely asinine and it is inexcusable that Warriors can't actually tank in the overwhelming majority of the game's content at a baseline.

This.

Explaining to new players that Warriors can't hold aggro and the high level ones have bags filled with items that gain them aggro even though that wasn't the original point of these items.

Also, I think the game would be so much better if the raid healing mechanic wasn't CH chain ONLY.

[Kich867]

Originally Posted by Tewaz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This.

Explaining to new players that Warriors can't hold aggro and the high level ones have bags filled with items that gain them aggro even though that wasn't the original point of these items.

Also, I think the game would be so much better if the raid healing mechanic wasn't CH chain ONLY.

Agreed, even the devs noted that Complete Heal was an atrocious design. It completely boxes in their design space for raid bosses. Every single raid boss has to contend with the fact that the tank can be fully healed over and over and over again in an extremely mana efficient manner. This gave them basically one knob to turn. Complete Heal is _probably_ the worst game design choice they made to be honest.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by ezigrelnos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so why not just give them clarity instead of only enchanters having it?

wizards are more convenience than optimization, they delete mobs faster than any other class, CC with aggro clicky/root/stun plus evacs/ports so why not let them have an extremely convenient group buff to round it out?

at the very least the stigma of wizards being useless in groups would go away when everyone is begging for crack.

also my idea is to give Rangers Feign Death so they can be competitive with SKs and Monks

Wizards are all about personal power and overwhelming show of force, not tricks of the mind. The nukes, pbaoes and aoe snares are a good start, and I think any other spells should play to that rather than buffing friends (which is what clarity does). They don't subtly manipulate - they beat physics into submission.

Going with the original post's theme, I'd suggest moving the shaman's PBAoE slow to wizard. Maybe even make it into a rain - to give the feel that the wizard has chosen a point of the battlefield and overwhelmed time itself to make all enemies in that area attack more slowly.

I think stopping time was what their 8 second duration stuns were meant to convey - but of course player stun durations got nerfed early to cap at 4 seconds on due to Whirl til you Hurl abuse, making the wizard stuns completely unmentionable. At least NPC wizards can still stun properly!!

Originally Posted by Kich867 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed, even the devs noted that Complete Heal was an atrocious design. It completely boxes in their design space for raid bosses. Every single raid boss has to contend with the fact that the tank can be fully healed over and over and over again in an extremely mana efficient manner. This gave them basically one knob to turn. Complete Heal is _probably_ the worst game design choice they made to be honest.

Well, in the context of when cheal was made (level 50 cap, max hp very limited, naggy/vox/kedge not itemised yet and planes not added) it was fine... just when you got tanks buffing over 5.5k hp with easily attainable gear, and far higher with top gear (some bosses giving 900 hp worth of gear to a character (cough vulak)) CH just got ridiculously op. It's a nightmare on the flipside too for NPC giants/dragons with over 10k hp casting it again and again too because they can't be stun interrupted.

My suggestion to fix it is limit the spell being cast in certain (unexpansioned) locations, like manastone's manaconvert spell.

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by Kich867 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If anything, Knights should be better at mitigation than they are. Warriors, baseline, cannot do their job. I'm not talking about the current understanding of the game, we all know how to get around it, I don't care about that.

If a group of new players decided to spin up a few characters, and someone picks a Warrior thinking they'll be the tank, they're in for a bad time. The threat mechanics in the game are completely asinine and it is inexcusable that Warriors can't actually tank in the overwhelming majority of the game's content at a baseline.

Just root everything and war is fine /nod

[ezigrelnos]

Originally Posted by Kich867 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizards don't need clarity... even if they just cast one spell per mob they're running OOM with an efficient group

so why not just give them clarity instead of only enchanters having it?

wizards are more convenience than optimization, they delete mobs faster than any other class, CC with aggro clicky/root/stun plus evacs/ports so why not let them have an extremely convenient group buff to round it out?

at the very least the stigma of wizards being useless in groups would go away when everyone is begging for crack.

also my idea is to give Rangers Feign Death so they can be competitive with SKs and Monks

[Kich867]

Originally Posted by ezigrelnos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so why not just give them clarity instead of only enchanters having it?

wizards are more convenience than optimization, they delete mobs faster than any other class, CC with aggro clicky/root/stun plus evacs/ports so why not let them have an extremely convenient group buff to round it out?

at the very least the stigma of wizards being useless in groups would go away when everyone is begging for crack.

also my idea is to give Rangers Feign Death so they can be competitive with SKs and Monks

Because that would be like giving Rogues more utility to me. I don't think Wizards need to offer utility, I think they should offer damage, they just shouldn't be so clunky about providing it.

I'm also, personally, a fan of keeping niche things niche and thematically like the idea of a Harvest line of spells for Wizards as their own personal mana generating system.

If wizards could safely nuke like...once or twice per mob without having to worry about pulling aggro even when its below 50% health, they'd be fine. My 35 wizard deals 310 damage per nuke, the average mob HP for things I'm killing are probably around 1200-1500hp. If I could contribute to dealing 20-25% of the damage dealt per mob in a full group, this would be fine.

But the problems add up in different ways in different directions. In small groups you need to nuke more often, which means you have a problem with mana. In full groups you only need to nuke once but since mobs die so quickly the tank has less threat to work with and you can pull off of them even if you wait awhile before casting.

So I feel like the only real issue with wizards is some combination of: their mana efficiency and/or their Harvest line being insufficient as a means of generating mana, and their nukes generating too much threat.

[Tewaz]

I like these ideas.

I love enchanter, but moving a few of their spell lines to Wiz and Mage would really help those classes.

But...for these types of changes to really have an effect, the exp rate for duos to full groups needs a buff. The game is just to easy solo at this point and the strong solo classes are the most popular by far. I don't think it needs to be as powerful as red (280% buff for a full group I think) but a buff should drive groups to form.

[loramin]

Mages: Give them root (or snare) and make their epic piece drop off every Magi spawn.

I swear, just a level 4 spell and a drop rate change and you would see a ton more people playing Magician.