Another Perspective

[jimthayner]

Originally Posted by Dravingar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You pay for small perks in the game, you can pay for name changes, sex changes, exp potions, cosmetic items, familiars and other shit. It's awful.

That's fucked up. Paying real money for in-game goods is the first sign of a declining MMORPG.

[Amelinda]

Originally Posted by Szeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wash that down with a milk steak big Salty and this whole issue can be left behind us.

wtf is a milk steak?

[Szeth]

It's from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" the show Salty posted a picture of. Google-fu man, c'mon.

[bakkily]

Originally Posted by Tyen01 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

win!

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by jimthayner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Above is quoted from Everquest's End User License Agreement. With all the drama relating about bans and cheating, I wanted to offer a another perspective and play Devil's Advocate.

1. We are all cheating. We are cheating Sony out of their rights to control their own intellectual property, created through years of R&D and most likely millions of dollars spent. With Uthgaard's (and others) seemingly ultra-conservative "Law & Order" stance toward cheating, they should take a good look at themselves before getting up on the soap box about using ShowEQ and other third party programs.

2. "Players need to use their common sense here and not do unethical things for personal gain." This is quoted directly from the "Server Rules" thread here: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1057.
Once again, I'd like to point out that we are all doing an "unethical thing" by violating Sony's EULA for Everquest. We are stealing Sony's intellectual property for the personal gain of playing for free and getting the classic EQ experience. Hypocrisy strike #2.

3. "DO NOT post copyrighted materials, links to get copyrighted materials, or discuss illegal methods to obtain copyrighted materials." Once again, quoted from the Server Rules. We are all violating this rule just by playing P1999! Where is the "ban the cheaters crowd for violating the server rules?" This whole server, and game, is a copyrighted material and we are using this message board to discuss methods to illegally obtain copyrighted materials (from downloading the version of this game required to play to the actual hosting of this illegal Everquest server).

In conclusion, the ultra-conservative stance of "ban the cheaters" is parallel to (I said "parallel to", not "equal to") the "Law & Order" political right's stance of "hang 'em all." Now, I'd be absolutely thrilled if P1999's player base was generally Republican/Conservative, but I have a feeling that the majority of P1999's player base is Democrat/liberal. "Hang 'em all" has never been a philosophy subscribed to by rational, free thinking people.

In the end, the Admins of this server have every right to ban anyone they want, for any reason they decide. The Supreme Court case involving the Boy Scouts and their policy of of discrimination against gays reinforced a citizen's Constitutional (and God given) right to control their property (and in this case, the P1999 server's access).

However, I think that those who subscribe to a "ban them all" mentality need to take a good look at themselves before they post photo shopped images supporting a 'ban them all' policy. They need to take a good, honest, look at their own hypocrisy when it comes to unethical behavior and infringing upon Sony's right to not be *cheated* out of their right to profit from their own creative work...before they post flames/rants/really lame photo shopped images.

You really didn't think anyone thought of this before you, did you?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4095

Rogean has personally met John Smedly, who knows of project 1999 and invited Rogean to apply to work for SOE.

Somehow I doubt we're breaking any rules, so unfortunately your wall of text is for naught. We're not all cheaters - most of us are just trying to enjoy a game in the way its administrators intend.

Banhammers and thread deletions come down on those who attempt to discuss how to obtain pirated software of Titanium. Yeah, *individuals* might do that, but these forums do not condone or allow it. Period.

[Ektar]

OP is that dude that sits in front of a philosophy class and points out stupid shit that he thinks is an earth-shattering new thought.

IT'S BECAUSE OF YOU I HAD TO STOP GOING TO CLASS. IT'S BECAUSE OF YOU I ONLY GOT A B+

[Mbaulmer]

Originally Posted by jimthayner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, I think that those who subscribe to a "ban them all" mentality need to take a good look at themselves before they post photo shopped images supporting a 'ban them all' policy. They need to take a good, honest, look at their own hypocrisy when it comes to unethical behavior and infringing upon Sony's right to not be *cheated* out of their right to profit from their own creative work...before they post flames/rants/really lame photo shopped images.

The majority of your OP was of little or no practical value or meaning and came across purely academic.

You did not touch on the true subject at hand which is people were using 3rd party programs to gain an advantage for themselves and their guilds.

Your use of unethical is misplaced and perhaps you should have used the term improper instead.

[snorri]

Originally Posted by jimthayner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. We are stealing Sony's intellectual property for the personal gain of playing for free and getting the classic EQ experience.

Stealing is theft, theft is removing something from its owner. Intellectual property cannot be stolen unless the creator has lost what they made.

Originally Posted by jimthayner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. This whole server, and game, is a copyrighted material and we are using this message board to discuss methods to illegally obtain copyrighted materials (from downloading the version of this game required to play to the actual hosting of this illegal Everquest server).

Untrue. The management has never (to my knowledge) suggested pirating the software. If some 'bad apples' break the rules and suggest that on the forums, then sure, censor them or ban them.

Originally Posted by jimthayner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They need to take a good, honest, look at their own hypocrisy when it comes to unethical behavior and infringing upon Sony's right to not be *cheated* out of their right to profit from their own creative work...

If the point of this post was about ethics, how's this:

I paid for my software. I have every ethical right to do what I want with it. If I want to edit it, I can. If I want to point my host file somewhere else, I can.

Sony is not being cheated out of anything. Do they offer a classic/trilogy server? No. So they wouldn't be getting paid anyway. If Sony provided the same service, and everyone just played here because it was free, then Sony might be losing money. But that's not the case.

Don't confuse breaking the EULA with law or morality. If you want to argue leniency for the cheaters, you need to do it a different way.

[Curmudgen]

I would say great to the original premise. Still, I would agree with the bans. So what. There is no reason to comment on a mute point.

[jimthayner]

Originally Posted by Mbaulmer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The majority of your OP was of little or no practical value or meaning and came across purely academic.

You did not touch on the true subject at hand which is people were using 3rd party programs to gain an advantage for themselves and their guilds.

Your use of unethical is misplaced and perhaps you should have used the term improper instead.

Unethical? Improper? Now you're just splitting hairs and attempting to be "OP." Whatever the fuck that means.

YOU have not addressed the point that Sony has a right to control its intellectual property (Everquest) and we're violating their wishes (they make it pretty clear in their EULA they don't want people using Emulators). Address that, and I'll consider addressing the idea of Third Party programs.