Experience Penalties...

[Snaggles]

I see your points but dont get your point.

Is the point that penalties have a reason (eg: solo ability) or that they dont (eg: jack of trades = flawed objectives)? Do you want them removed early even tho they existed?

A good ranger can solo well as can a geared warrior, just two different styles: One dances and the other chews through blues and bandages. The warrior cant kite though limiting certain kills. They just whack and hope to beat the hp percentage of the mob (or zone).

In a group a well geared ranger puts down nice controlled dps. A lazy one is horrible because they roll less damage dice than monks/rogues. Played well and looking for ways to shine they can.

Ive grouped with bad rogues before. They are just horrible players. That same person on a ranger would even be worse. You would be asking for paltry buffs and rezzing them constantly.

Not sure if im on track. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Kika Maslyaka]

The point is to indicate that Brad was smocking crap when he came up with them. Hence the link from alla to prove it.
Everything else is essentially irrelevant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Diggles]

You guys are planning for Velious, Kunark just came out 7 months ago and VP isn't even released yet. Calm the hell down. Level a hybrid now, xp penalties were removed halfway after velious launch, you'd be able to level plenty before then.

[gnomishfirework]

Great effort on that write up! Now, write one up on why they should add beastlords and vah shir.

It will be just as effective. Your post isn't original. It has been made before. Many times. I may have made one, I don't remember. That's how tired this argument is. The server has a purpose. Your suggestion is 100% against this purpose.

[Diggles]

Originally Posted by gnomishfirework [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Great effort on that write up! Now, write one up on why they should add beastlords and vah shir.

It will be just as effective. Your post isn't original. It has been made before. Many times. I may have made one, I don't remember. That's how tired this argument is. The server has a purpose. Your suggestion is 100% against this purpose.

The only difference is what he's talking about happened in Velious at some point. You're going off the deep end and screaming something about Luclin, an expansion that has been said multiple times will never happen. This server is intended for Velious at some point in the future.

don't be a dick man.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well hybrid Xp penalties were the most stupid idea in initial game design.
Verant designed a game where half of the classes were ultra specialized, while other half were "jack of all trades" but good at nothing.

Their idea was that pure classes will group and raid, while the other half will solo. This of course ultimately fail, cause game obviously proven non solo friendly from any reasonable perspective, other than extreme grinding boredom

However, at the same time, classes like necros or mages who were UBER at soloing, did not had such a MAD XP penalty like hybrids did.
Verant finally realized this, albeit 2 years later, and removed Xp penalties in Velious era.

Another thing - the design concept where some classes sacrifice their combat potential for cash-generating abilities is DEGENERATE beyond believe. This approach leads to EVERYONE making cash generating char first, getting ton of cash and then twinking the hell out of their combat character, instead of legibly playing them.

Please do give druids and wizards self ports as a "travel bonus", but do not allow them to turn it into unlimited source of income - aka do not give them group ports. Or make group ports cost an insanely expensive reagent so they can only afford it if their guilds pays for it for some sort of guild emergency. So approach to buffs. Enchanters should not be able making shit load of plat by sitting in place whole day casting Clarity.

This is why I keep praising EQ2, where buffs you can cast, act as "auras", and only affect your group - if person joins the group - he gets buffed, if he leaves, buff stays behind.

Mostly disagree with this post with the exception of that classes like Necro probably should have gotten more of an xp penalty (they do have some).

I don't think the xp penalties were a bad thing but they probably should have been announced. The benefits of hybrids over pure melees was very pronounced earlier in the game. In a lot of ways its like the newer editions of DnD that allow people to gain levels in different classes.

The roles of certain classes are tied to Fantasy Lore and MUDs that go way back. It was actually upsetting to most people when PoK arrived and made the world too easy to traverse for all. The bells were something I and many people dislked in EQ2. There are basically only two places you can't get to without a porter and those have a cost component. For the rest porting is a time saver and many classes have unique abilites, IE rez, corpse summon, crack, buffs, that only they can provide.

Not everything is always fair and I hate when games try to make it that way. A major reason why I quit WoW (the 3rd time) was the homogenizing of multiple classes to placate people. Paladins complaining that their AoE dps was inferior to Mages was just ludicrious.

I strongly dislked the EQ2 aura buff system. It made no sense for magical enchanments to only work in the presence of someone.

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mostly disagree with this post with the exception of that classes like Necro probably should have gotten more of an xp penalty (they do have some).

I don't think the xp penalties were a bad thing but they probably should have been announced. The benefits of hybrids over pure melees was very pronounced earlier in the game. In a lot of ways its like the newer editions of DnD that allow people to gain levels in different classes.

what is the benefit of hybrid/melee early in the game? hybrids get some low lvl spells to play around with (admittedly some of them are quite useful..), melees get pretty much every relevant melee skill earlier (and in some cases, they get skills that hybrids will never get!). seems balanced to me.

and more importantly, what is the advantage of hybrids vs any divine or arcane spellcaster? can they solo more effectively? group? lmao. if the penalties were designed after any actual class effectiveness they would look absolutely nothing like they do now.

we already have the case of devs tweaking shit that they feel was out of line regardless of the classic timeline, the hoop nerf and pet classes come to mind as recent examples. what is the point of keeping hybrid penalties if there is pretty much unilateral agreement that it's retarded?

[Diggles]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what is the point of keeping hybrid penalties if there is pretty much unilateral agreement that it's retarded?

it's ~classic~

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what is the point of keeping hybrid penalties if there is pretty much unilateral agreement that it's retarded?

Just keeping it as legit as possible I guess.

I don't think it makes sense that a Ranger (for example) have a massive exp penalty due to ease of life where the Druid doesn't. Sure they have far more tricks and mobility than a Warrior but ports should deserve a penalty based on that logic.

In the end the grind to 60 sucks for any class. Hybrids it's just lemon juice in a cut kind of bad. If you want to be that class the penalty shouldn't sway the decision because the suffering ends eventually. I loved my Ogre SK and actually soloed a fair amount of the way to 65. It was slow but having options was better than not and I could solo the first 8 Coldain rings with ease.

Oh...and killing Rogues solely with taps and blood boil was the best. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Vasilyevich]

Do they ever fix any of the obvious fuckups of the original dev team?

Something that comes to mind, obviously wrong 100% can not be used as a stat by this class stats on knight planar pants.

Or is this strict it must be as close to original as possible?

I remember a time when you could make toolboxes for a profit. That was part of kunark, but it's an obvious fuckup that should never be implemented here.