Tips for a 40 Ogre Warrior?

[AimAce]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't listen to this dude. (http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=144)

Stack your dex and swing ykesha procs, for great justice.


Cloak of shadows, executioner's hood, grotesque mask, fire emerald platinum rings, probably in that order imo, is an efficient way for you to get more dex on a limited budget. Sell the any weapon you have for DPS and buy a staff of battle for DPSing.

I don't appreciate you telling the OP to not listen to me. Did you read your own thread you linked?

at 105+ you swing 1 per min, at 205 which is ONE HUNDRED DEX MORE you swing 1.5 per min. Do you understand how much more dex 100 is from 105? Do you know how little high dex gear there is?

If you add 50 dex from 100, your proc rate goes from 1 to 1.25. That is NOT a noticeable increase during combat. Do you know what probabilities are?

Please do not call me out unless you have some actual comment. "Don't listen to that guy OP, I heard dex was the best 100 dex gives you 5000 more procs per second huehuehuehue"

Dex is good, but in small amounts dex is a worthless stat.

[Itap]

To reiterate Tecmos point, I believe he was trying to tell the OP to AT LEAST get his Dex up to 105, as it is a mere 72.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't appreciate you telling the OP to not listen to me. Did you read your own thread you linked?

at 105+ you swing 1 per min, at 205 which is ONE HUNDRED DEX MORE you swing 1.5 per min. Do you understand how much more dex 100 is from 105? Do you know how little high dex gear there is?

If you add 50 dex from 100, your proc rate goes from 1 to 1.25. That is NOT a noticeable increase during combat. Do you know what probabilities are?

Please do not call me out unless you have some actual comment. "Don't listen to that guy OP, I heard dex was the best 100 dex gives you 5000 more procs per second huehuehuehue"

Dex is good, but in small amounts dex is a worthless stat.

I read the post more than you did, apparently, since the numbers you are quoting from that post are actually the stock eqemu values and not the ones in place here on p99... which is something that is mentioned in the post that you are yelling at me for not reading.

That aside, you posted earlier (and again in the post I just quoted above) and basically said that it was useless for the OP to get any dex unless he was going to get a lot of dex, and that isn't true. Procs aren't some exponential thing, where +50 dex gives you 1x more procs, another +50 gives you 3x more procs, and another +50 gives you 9x more procs. It's linearish. Every single 1 point of dex is valuable, very valuable, for a warrior who is trying to hold aggro in groups. And because you don't understand that, I told the OP to ignore you.

Granted, the effect of a few points of dex is not something you can really notice in any given fight. But neither is the effect of a few points of anything. But that isn't going to stop a player from taking an upgrade just because it's only a small upgrade. That isn't going to stop that small ugprade from having a difference in every single fight, even if you can't really notice it. That isn't going to stop multiple small upgrades from eventually yielding noticable returns on a fight-to-fight basis, to say nothing of the long run.


Go herptydurp somewhere where you won't be disturbing the rest of us, please.

[AimAce]

The effects of raising dex is minimal unless you can get a whole heap of it. The fact that its linear or not does not change the fact that dex in small amounts (when you're trading off things like AC AND HP----(which you ARE ASKING HIM TO DO)) is NOT beneficial. You are correct that I was looking at the stock values, which I agree is wrong. But I also am quite sure there was a dev post about 2h and 1hs having different values, but I'm not going to argue that without a direct quote.

My point here is the fact that you are completely disregarding the other stats (such as hp-str-ac) which are in lower levels, even more beneficial than a few extra points of dex, especially since its only VARIABLY affects your aggro gaining abilities (unlike str, which allows you to continuously hit harder & carry more which allows you to have different weps for different situations, AC which is the entire role of warriors, and hp because hp).

To reiterate my point, given the proc function given by Kanras in that post, every 83 increase in dex would only raise your proc rate by .5 which admittedly, is not terrible, but how many low levels can afford 83 dex. You're asking him to raise his dex by a FEW dozen AT BEST. And that is just not going to be noticeable in the long term.

Here is an example of why dex is stupid;
Lets say he raises his dex to 100, from 72, at the cost of many of his str and ac items.
In a fight he will proc approximately 1.125 (each 83 being .5 more) versus the .9 proc he would have normally have.

That means in an average of EIGHT MINUTES he will proc NINE TIMES VERSUS SEVEN TIMES

Do you think this is going to help his aggro on mobs? Yes he might proc 30 times a fight, but he might also never proc until group kicks him for having dex instead of BEING ABLE TO TANK-----

You are completely attributing too much to the benefits of dex, and you are stripping away the point of warriors-to mitigate damage.

TL;DR stop using memes "herptydurp" and stop being an idiot dex pusher.

PS: Do you even warrior

[Tecmos Deception]

This is going to be a fun one!

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The effects of raising dex is minimal unless you can get a whole heap of it.

We already covered this. Every SMALL stat increase gives a SMALL benefit. But that doesn't make doing a little bit of the right thing bad. And dex for warriors is the right thing, especially now that the OP is well beyond the point of clubbing orcs in oasis.

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that its linear or not does not change the fact that dex in small amounts (when you're trading off things like AC AND HP----(which you ARE ASKING HIM TO DO)) is NOT beneficial.

Yes, there are other stats that are important to a warrior than dex. But there isn't much point having great ac and hp if you aren't going to be keeping aggro. And really, OP shouldn't be concerned with hp at all right now. He's an ogre already, so he'll have a boatload of hp without even trying to get any more hp or stam gear. He isn't going to be getting CHed all that often yet, probably. And I didn't really ask him to sacrifice much ac OR hp to pick up the dex items I suggested.

The helm? He'll lose several AC and 2 strength to gain 9 dex.
The cloak? If he is wearing werewolf skin cloak, he'll be gaining several AC and a whopping 13 dex while losing 3 str and 3 stam.
The face? Loses a couple ac and a few str to gain several dex.
The rings? He loses several AC and 110 hp to gain 10 str and 10 dex.

He's giving up things that he already has a TON of (hp and stam) and only a few AC in order to gain a few str and a bunch of dex.

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are correct that I was looking at the stock values, which I agree is wrong. But I also am quite sure there was a dev post about 2h and 1hs having different values, but I'm not going to argue that without a direct quote.

What does this have to do with this thread?

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point here is the fact that you are completely disregarding the other stats (such as hp-str-ac) which are in lower levels, even more beneficial than a few extra points of dex, especially since its only VARIABLY affects your aggro gaining abilities (unlike str, which allows you to continuously hit harder & carry more which allows you to have different weps for different situations, AC which is the entire role of warriors, and hp because hp).

Again. 40 ogre warrior needs to be much more concerned with keeping aggro than with having 200 extra hp on his gear. His strength is already great. His AC? Yeah, it's very important. But it is less important than being able to keep aggro, and I can't help that warriors keep aggro via procs. And in just a few levels, when he ends up grouped with 49+ shamans on a pretty regular basis, his strength and stam are both going to be buffed up to 220+ even if he has a bunch of gear focused on improving his dex, which will NOT be anywhere near max even with buffs even with a lot of easily-buyable dex gear. Meanwhile, his AC will be passable and his HP will still be through the roof because he's an ogre warrior.

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To reiterate my point, given the proc function given by Kanras in that post, every 83 increase in dex would only raise your proc rate by .5 which admittedly, is not terrible, but how many low levels can afford 83 dex. You're asking him to raise his dex by a FEW dozen AT BEST. And that is just not going to be noticeable in the long term.

Actually your point earlier was that dex isn't noticable in the short term. Which was more or less true. But now you're wrong, because even 1 measley point of dex is noticable in the long term.

You need to stop talking about these breakpoint-ish numbers, because they don't mean anything. So what if 83 dex is a large number and it gives a "not terrible" .5 ppm increase? The OP doesn't need to gain 83 dex in order to see a boost in his ppm. And just because dex and procs are a random thing doesn't mean that they should be ignored, or put on a low priority, when your entire class is based around keeping aggro with these mechanics.

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is an example of why dex is stupid;
Lets say he raises his dex to 100, from 72, at the cost of many of his str and ac items.
In a fight he will proc approximately 1.125 (each 83 being .5 more) versus the .9 proc he would have normally have.

That means in an average of EIGHT MINUTES he will proc NINE TIMES VERSUS SEVEN TIMES

Do you think this is going to help his aggro on mobs? Yes he might proc 30 times a fight, but he might also never proc until group kicks him for having dex instead of BEING ABLE TO TANK-----

This is a flawed argument from the start, because I already showed that the OP would not be gutting his hp, ac, and/or str in order to gain dex.

Quit ranting about how dex and procs are random. We know. That's how warriors are built! Do you think any warrior who is worth anything on this server is out there rocking 70 unbuffed dex just because he is annoyed at how procs work?

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are completely attributing too much to the benefits of dex, and you are stripping away the point of warriors-to mitigate damage.

The point of warriors is to TANK. Tanking involves two things, basically. ONE of those is soaking up hits without dying. But that thing isn't even possible if the warrior doesn't have aggro in the first place, and warriors are built to keep aggro via procs, especially at the levels the OP is now attaining and especially when the warrior in question isn't twinked to the point that he is keeping aggro with DPS alone.

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TL;DR stop using memes "herptydurp" and stop being an idiot dex pusher.

Allow me to quote you, mocking me: "Don't listen to that guy OP, I heard dex was the best 100 dex gives you 5000 more procs per second huehuehuehue"

And then I told you to take your hertpydurp elsewhere.

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PS: Do you even warrior

No [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]




What level is your warrior, Aim? Wanna come try to tank for my rogue with your strength-capped, monster AC, monster HP warrior who uses two wurmies to try to tank in HS/seb? I'll give you the straight facts on whether you tank better than every other warrior I've grouped with since 50. Ya know, all those other ogres who wear dex gear and are swinging ykesha weps and sarnak warhammers and silken whips and all.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by AimAce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well...+Dex unless in massive amounts (and I mean above 200~) is really not going to affect your proc rate THAT much. IMO more str would be better, allows you to hit higher more consistently. But TBH your gear is fine, just get two proc weapons and all will be good.

I'm also confused by this.

You are arguing so much with me about how you think dex has such a minimal effect on keeping aggro unless you have hundreds of dex, and you are saying that str to do more damage to keep aggro is the way to go, but then you tell the OP to get two proccing weapons to keep aggro.

By your own reasoning, the procs will be so random and infrequent that they won't help him keep aggro, ESPECIALLY SINCE HE HAS FREAKING 70 DEX, plus the proccing weps this guy can afford are going to have pretty crappy ratios. But you think he should wield these with his str-, hp-, and ac-stacked warrior in order to keep aggro. Even though they don't do squat for damage and they they aren't going to proc much either.

Do YOU even warrior?

[Maybach 2.0]

You're gonna want lots more DEx if you're planning on using procs to hold your aggro. You've got a lammy and a GJBS, aside from a Wurmy + something decent offhand you've got some decent gear. Save for Mith Arms/Legs, good replacements to Crafted. My War's got near-full crafted suit and some of those pieces just flat out suck.

[AimAce]

Btw, I agree this is going to be a fun one.

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is going to be a fun one!



We already covered this. Every SMALL stat increase gives a SMALL benefit. But that doesn't make doing a little bit of the right thing bad. And dex for warriors is the right thing, especially now that the OP is well beyond the point of clubbing orcs in oasis.


Dex for warriors are rarely the right thing. Beyond clubbing orcs means nothing, what are you even trying to say? Dex gives a small benefit which in relation to more important stats such as ac str and hp, is not worth the cost.


Yes, there are other stats that are important to a warrior than dex. But there isn't much point having great ac and hp if you aren't going to be keeping aggro. And really, OP shouldn't be concerned with hp at all right now. He's an ogre already, so he'll have a boatload of hp without even trying to get any more hp or stam gear. He isn't going to be getting CHed all that often yet, probably. And I didn't really ask him to sacrifice much ac OR hp to pick up the dex items I suggested.

Few points. If he is losing aggro at this level, it will be to twinks, and twinks tank harder at early levels 70% of the time, unless they have no armor and only one decent weapon. If he loses aggro, he shouldn't be tanking. If he has aggro, it is because he is partying with people with his gear level or lower, and thus he should be doing his job; mitigation. Not trying to steal the aggro from a twinked monk or rogue, and basically be taking massively more damage, thus actually NEGATIVELY HELPING THE TEAM.

The helm? He'll lose several AC and 2 strength to gain 9 dex.
The cloak? If he is wearing werewolf skin cloak, he'll be gaining several AC and a whopping 13 dex while losing 3 str and 3 stam.
The face? Loses a couple ac and a few str to gain several dex.
The rings? He loses several AC and 110 hp to gain 10 str and 10 dex.

Multiple items here are very expensive (mostly the cloak that costs 1.5-2.5k) and some of your suggestions are just so bad it makes me cry. Really? You want him to replace some of the most core tank rings in game? Wat.

He's giving up things that he already has a TON of (hp and stam) and only a few AC in order to gain a few str and a bunch of dex.


More of a good thing isn't bad, that's like saying "OMG Rogue you do too much dmg, just replace your offhand with a fire beetle eye for looks u nub". Tanks are for tanking. They need hp and ac. Stop.


What does this have to do with this thread?

If what I recalled was correct, that means 1hs proc even less, thus dex even less necessary etc~ but you are too feeble minded to understand so ignore it.



Again. 40 ogre warrior needs to be much more concerned with keeping aggro than with having 200 extra hp on his gear. His strength is already great. His AC? Yeah, it's very important. But it is less important than being able to keep aggro, and I can't help that warriors keep aggro via procs. And in just a few levels, when he ends up grouped with 49+ shamans on a pretty regular basis, his strength and stam are both going to be buffed up to 220+ even if he has a bunch of gear focused on improving his dex, which will NOT be anywhere near max even with buffs even with a lot of easily-buyable dex gear. Meanwhile, his AC will be passable and his HP will still be through the roof because he's an ogre warrior.

Copy pasted for your benefit. Few points. If he is losing aggro at this level, it will be to twinks, and twinks tank harder at early levels 70% of the time, unless they have no armor and only one decent weapon. If he loses aggro, he shouldn't be tanking. If he has aggro, it is because he is partying with people with his gear level or lower, and thus he should be doing his job; mitigation. Not trying to steal the aggro from a twinked monk or rogue, and basically be taking massively more damage, thus actually NEGATIVELY HELPING THE TEAM.


Actually your point earlier was that dex isn't noticable in the short term. Which was more or less true. But now you're wrong, because even 1 measley point of dex is noticable in the long term.

You need to stop talking about these breakpoint-ish numbers, because they don't mean anything. So what if 83 dex is a large number and it gives a "not terrible" .5 ppm increase? The OP doesn't need to gain 83 dex in order to see a boost in his ppm. And just because dex and procs are a random thing doesn't mean that they should be ignored, or put on a low priority, when your entire class is based around keeping aggro with these mechanics.


Procs help sustain aggro especially in higher levels, but it is not our main form of aggro generation. Warriors have one of the highest dps in game (in terms of auto attack/melee) which is our aggro generation. We also have taunt to auto jump onto top of aggro list. Procs are the cherry on top (admittedly very important in some situations) but they are not the only thing that allows us to hold aggro. Look at it this way; if he holds aggro with all this dex gear, he will just be taking ridiculous amounts of damage and then be a bad tank anyways. Comprende?


This is a flawed argument from the start, because I already showed that the OP would not be gutting his hp, ac, and/or str in order to gain dex.

Quit ranting about how dex and procs are random. We know. That's how warriors are built! Do you think any warrior who is worth anything on this server is out there rocking 70 unbuffed dex just because he is annoyed at how procs work?

Never said that. Most high tier warriors are buffed dex/str come raids, as well as high resists. And yes, they have proccing weapons. Does this mean they throw away ac/hp or RESISTS? Nope.



The point of warriors is to TANK. Tanking involves two things, basically. ONE of those is soaking up hits without dying. But that thing isn't even possible if the warrior doesn't have aggro in the first place, and warriors are built to keep aggro via procs, especially at the levels the OP is now attaining and especially when the warrior in question isn't twinked to the point that he is keeping aggro with DPS alone.

I'd copy paste again but I'm sure you understand.


Allow me to quote you, mocking me: "Don't listen to that guy OP, I heard dex was the best 100 dex gives you 5000 more procs per second huehuehuehue"

And then I told you to take your hertpydurp elsewhere.




No [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]




What level is your warrior, Aim? Wanna come try to tank for my rogue with your strength-capped, monster AC, monster HP warrior who uses two wurmies to try to tank in HS/seb? I'll give you the straight facts on whether you tank better than every other warrior I've grouped with since 50. Ya know, all those other ogres who wear dex gear and are swinging ykesha weps and sarnak warhammers and silken whips and all.

U r teh dum pls shh.

[Tecmos Deception]

Not up for proving your warrior choices work in game huh?

[AimAce]

If you gave a quick read around any forum, you'd know I'm currently playing a non-tank warrior. I am speaking from my (albeit hazy) memory as a tank during trilogy EQ live. Since then, I have also read extensively on different EQ warrior websites, or just stat information in general, and am making my views based on both of these basis.

I'm not going to argue with you further, this is quickly turning a newbie help thread into a RnF troll. We've both given our points, let the OP decide.