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[Belz]

Originally Posted by Ogre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

False. SK/Pally snap aggro.

Monk w/ Addy Club = Win Tank

DPS + DD Stun

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Ogre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

False. SK/Pally snap aggro.

He wasn't saying sk's and paladins don't do anything better than monks.

The point is, all things considered, a monk brings more to the table in a greater breadth of situations. As a tank, a monk has more versatility in smaller comps (duo, trio). In full groups, monks can fulfill the tank role adequately while simultaneously bringing dps. You have to compare the marginal usefulness of snap agro to what a monk brings-- mitigation that is roughly the same, efficient pulling, and excellent dps. Snap agro allows your shaman to slow the mob 10 seconds earlier, is that worth losing the monk's massive dps? In most situations, probably not.

That said, I play a shadowknight, because I have fun with the class and I enjoy being the underdog so I can go on the forums and bitch about how monks are OP.

[Dalron]

As a cleric, I would take a Pally over a monk in my group every day of the week and twice on Sundays!

Dalron - Cleric of the 14th Circle of Light

[fadetree]

Me too. Any high aggro melee is going to do better with a snap aggro tank.

[webrunner5]

If the Monk is pulling he already has agro. You can't cast most spells till the mob is under 80% health I don't care who is the tank. Monks have crazy damage in this game like it or not. I'll take the monk thank you.

[Dalron]

Must not be a cleric, lol. I don't care about their damage, they have way too many negatives that offset it for me!

[fadetree]

Or, I might add, a ranger can snap aggro as well. Don't tank as well as Sk/Pally of course, but comparable to a monk and can aggro like a mofo.

[webrunner5]

I want the mob to die, and die quick. So I will still take the Monk, sorry.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Ogre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except that's not true? Try casting a Shaman slow on a mob at 80% HP when you have a Monk tank I guarantee you'll be tanking that mob until either you or the mob dies (unless you root it and step back). You'd have to wait until 65% or lower to cast slow reasonable safely. And if you're waiting till a mob is 1/2 HP to slow it, then that makes the high-mana cost of a slow extremely questionable..

On the other hand, with an SK or Pally in my group you can find me casting that slow as early as I want on my Shaman and not having to ping-pong aggro like a bunch of retards.

It's important to note that in this situation the shaman may not be able to slow until 80% or 65% (I disagree, having played a shaman and duoed with monks extensively), but the mob's health will be lowered to 80% or 65% significantly faster with a monk instead of a shadowknight or paladin. Any mana or life the shaman loses either from:

A) Late slows
B) Agro on slow

Will be mitigated by the fact that the monk is doing excellent dps to the mob.

As I said, there are countless situations where each class's distinctions have varying levels of usefulness and hybrid tanks will excel in some situations.

My point is, the monks ability to mitigate at roughly the level of a paladin/sk and provide excellent dps and pull without mana use make them a superior choice in the majority of circumstances.

If that isn't enough for you, just look at what happened on live after Velious. Luclin gutted monk survivability, added more dps for shadow knights, and gave paladins(lol) more stuns(mitigation, agro). Even Velious itself attempted to bring sk's/paladins up to par by restructuring their defensive skillcaps, but ludicrous monk itemization ensured monks still reigned supreme in that era.

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or, I might add, a ranger can snap aggro as well. Don't tank as well as Sk/Pally of course, but comparable to a monk and can aggro like a mofo.

Snap agro, yes-- but at this point in the game rangers take copious amounts of damage, particularly after level 40 when hybrid skillcaps heavily diverge from pure melee skillcaps. Note that at level 40, a ranger's defense caps at 200 and then it never goes up again.

Ranger:
Defense: 200
Dodge: 170
Parry: 220
Riposte: 150

Rogue:
Defense: 252
Dodge: 210
Parry: 230
Riposte: 225

Shaman:
Defense: 200
Dodge: 75

A ranger's mitigation isn't even close to a monk, paladin, or shadowknight. It is likely inferior even to a rogue. Add in the epic slow proc and things get interesting.

And again, I'm not bashing the merit of these classes. Hybrids are my favorite classes to play; I hate monks, I think they're boring. It's just important that you understand reality.

[fadetree]

Well, so far I've not had much trouble tanking when I've needed to. I have watched monks tank and haven't been convinced that it wasn't comparable. And yes, was after 40.