Endurance Questions

[Danth]

Calling it endurance isn't classic.

I can't speak for dual wield classes, but as a Paladin, wielding a weapon under or equal to 10 weight never caused the yellow bar to budge, not even with haste. Weapons over 10 weight (Axe of the Iron Back, Wurmslayer, etc) caused the bar to gradually run out. Running out caused slower running, an inability to jump, and IIRC a stat hit. Might've slowed attack rate too; I never timed it. I can't vouch for how much the stat drain was...the only situations where I ran out of stamina tended to be emergencies where carefully checking stats wasn't a high priority. Having 100 or better stamina meant the only negative effect of running out was an inability to jump.

Note that players didn't stack stamina so heavily in those days because the HP returns from it sucked. Hence lots of melees, even some tanks, ran around with less than 100. As a side note, the Titanium client gives us more HP from stamina than I recall getting historically....I think it uses a more modern multiplier (stamina was improved as a stat in the post-classic era, possibly more than once). Don't much care enough to look up anything to confirm or refute that memory.

Dual wield classes seemed to complain about running out of stamina more, and tended to ask for a "zing" (remember that?) with some regularity, so it seemed to affect them more than the non-dual-wield melee'ers. I don't know what their weight limit was. Is there anyone on this board who can remember dual-wielding Yaks? Those were 4.5 weight each.

When P1999 first opened there was a badly implemented pseudo stamina drain active. It was ridiculously excessive and almost intolerable. They couldn't seem to get it working in a remotely classic manner so eventually they just turned it off. Apparently the massive (and varying per character) values for endurance used by the Titanium client makes it hard to simulate classic-era stamina drain.

Danth

[Thulack]

Everyone needs to realize also Nirgon bumped a 5 year old post. It was changed since OP but still not perfect.

[Danth]

Yeah, I was here. Melee was a trainwreck when P1999 first opened. Running out of stamina within seconds while having about an 80% miss rate against light blues kind of sucked. Life is much better now, by and large. The good old days weren't so good.

Danth

[Nirgon]

I bumped it cuz it had code snippets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Melee have no down time at all (or fungi melees power leveling up) if they have heals. Casters have lots of down time. I feel like removing spells costing mana would suck too.

Phinny is way too easy / a joke... 2 mages swim down there np with a monk and tear him up with no regard for stam swimming. List goes on for why I think this should come back and the right way.

[Pudge]

When you ran out of stamina in the water.... You sank. You couldn't swim anymore, and that's why losing your stamina meant you drowned.

Each melee swing took some stamina, and the heavier the weapon the more it took. Weaps like wurmslayer weren't as good as they are right now because it weighs so much.

[Nirgon]

As far as how much stamina melee swings should drain....

I believe that having acumen should keep you topped off even if VoG'd with a heavy weapon.

So if we're tuning it, I'd say aim for a target where a VoG + acumen buffed warrior swinging a heavy weapon stays at full stam. This is my 2cp and needs more info.

Swimming drain, hard to approximate but you should not regain stam in water ever unless a spell heals your stam meter. This would be one of those "get it close" situations.

Here is a good approximation, I think and should be very easy to replicate/get close:

Jun 12 2001

I am pretty sure that one of the NPCs in the oasis was a merchant type. All 3 NPCs there were indifferent to me. I take the Bloated Belly to chessboard Isle where I stop to regain some stamina, then I swim the rest of the way. When you're done it's not that far the the firepots room if you've had enough with TD.

More discussing endurance:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4500


Monkly business thread talking about stamina:
http://www.monkly-business.net/forum...ead.php?t=8666

Stamina (sta)- This stat affects a few things. First of all it has a direct relationship to how many hit points you have. In addition to this it affects the yellow bar below your health. If you have under 100 stamina and this bar runs out (which can happen with heavy weapons, lack of food, being overweight, etc) you will lose other stats and be slowed (ie. Swing your weapon less times per second). Seeing as how this is true I would definitely try to get this stat over 100, if not put all your points into stamina.

Bindsight spells should last as long as you have stamina:
http://xornn.tripod.com/Spells/spell.htm

Remote Viewing
Bind Sight (8), Shifting Sight (20), Cast Sight (34)
Parlor tricks mostly, and a chance for some nifty screeshots. This spell allows you to see through the eyes of your target, and you can also "hop scotch" to other targets you pick up during their travels. Duration is until your stamina runs out, though the farther way the target gets the more jumpy the "transmission" gets. Nice way to pass time when you're bored, and actually had use once when a rogue was trying to find my corpse and I was using his eyes to tell him if I saw anything familiar. Note that any spells you cast while using these spells will still come from you, with normal range restrictions. You can renew your stamina with stamina regen spells during the effects. Bind Sight is just the borrowed sight, 20th is with infravision, and 34th uses ultravision.

Running slower / being over 100 cap:
http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/hom...?f=175&t=68427

Once your stamina was over 100, you didnt see any detrimental effects to having your sta bar run out (aside from running slower).

Necessary for swimming / more on attack speed slow

More on melee

I agree the Augmentation line of spells aren't the best but they save me a spell spot and most of my Melee's are BEGGING me to pull this spell out cause if you are using Swift like the wind or WR your STA goes down down down very fast, with this spell, Quickness does not override it either does Alacrity (20% if i remember) i think it is about 25 or 30 % haste but also this spell gives me time to do more important things then the 10 second cast time on the haste spells, these last LOTS longer so dont go saying a line of spell sux unless you've acually used it.

More still on melee

This spell is useful for 1 thing: After the fight, the tank is down some fatigue and everyone has good mana. Instead of waiting for his fatigue to come back, you invig him and he's ready to go.

If you are wondering what fatigue does, it affects your stamina, running speed, agility, and one other stat I can't remember... It also slows down your attacks a LOT, and if you are out and hungry your mana does not come back, and your HPs regen at 1/2 speed.

Approximate swimming drain rate (being a tank and melee'ing / moving around in kedge shouldn't be > aug regen)

For stamina, I prefer the uber-buff Augmentation. It gives Agility, attack speed, and stamina regen. I was in kedge keep for 6 hours and my stamina bar never dipped while augmented. Tanks with me reported the same. It is in the 29 spells, so it arrives well before a need to go to kedge. I have never had a need for this spell that augment didn't handle and work better. I never had an issue with mobs outlasting stamina 24-29. If you find an application for it, more power to your creativity. This is just my experience. Leirra Wayfarrer

[Daldaen]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bind Sight may drain stamina, see screenshot.

[Nirgon]

Is this a mechanic that was put away for good? Or is there an intention to restore it?

If its not wanted by the devs/project management, I'll leave it alone.

Problem is melees just have 0 down time right now and they should have it unless buffed with sta/acumen. Not to mention immersion factors of characters actually getting tired doing things/managing that... and related spells having a use instead of being useless.

[Secrets]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is this a mechanic that was put away for good? Or is there an intention to restore it?

If its not wanted by the devs/project management, I'll leave it alone.

Problem is melees just have 0 down time right now and they should have it unless buffed with sta/acumen. Not to mention immersion factors of characters actually getting tired doing things/managing that... and related spells having a use instead of being useless.

I submitted a fix to the staff not too long ago that removes the ability for the client to dictate stamina, hp, and mana regen so it's going to be up to them to implement a classic stamina bar.

The main things that come to mind are:

How much stamina is given per tick provided your food is situated?
How much stamina is drained per weapon swing, and do double attacks/dual wield affect this?
What is an average player's stamina pool at level 1?

[Secrets]

Looks like I answered some of my own questions by digging into EQMac:

- Fatigue is determined by the client and is set in a function listed as:
EQ_PC::SetFatigue(DWORD this, signed int val)

- Fatigue can be a number between 0 and 100 (100 being 'bar depleted'), but never exceeding 100. See the following pseudocode generated from IDA below:

void __cdecl EQ_PC::SetFatigue(int a1, signed int a2)
{
  char v2; // al@3

  if ( a2 <= 100 )
  {
    v2 = 0;
    if ( a2 >= 0 )
      v2 = a2;
    *(_BYTE *)(a1 + 4958) = v2;
  }
  else
  {
    *(_BYTE *)(a1 + 4958) = 100;
  }
}

- In EQPlayer::DoAttack, below the check to see if the target is visible on the client end of things, you have this section of pseudocode before the packet is sent for activating an attack due to combat processing:

              if ( pInstLocalPC && CombatEQ != pInstLocalPC && (v64 = ((_BYTE *)pInstLocalPC + 174), v64 > 25u) )// pInstLocalPC + 174 = STR? i think
              {
                v65 = 1;
                if ( v64 > 50u )
                {
                  if ( v64 <= 100u )
                    EQ_PC::SetFatigue(v120, *(_BYTE *)(v120 + 4958) + 1);
                  else
                    EQ_PC::SetFatigue(v120, *(_BYTE *)(v120 + 4958) + 2);

-This states that if your melee attack goes off - and your STR (I think +174 is str?) is between 50 and 100 - your melee attack will cost 1 fatigue, if not, it costs 2.

-There's also a random factor associated with swinging a weapon - 50% of the time you will additionally drain another 1 stamina on a weapon hit.

-Each hand has its own stamina penalty from swinging it. Item Slots 13 and 14 (pri/sec) both drain stamina.
*This also reassures that Rogean was right years ago when someone claimed weapons didn't swing independently - each hand has a separate chance to drain stamina when it 'triggers'

-Also, to answer the question above I had, double attack does not count for draining stamina - only dual wield can drain stamina and only the first hit in an attack can drain stamina in case of rampage/flurry. NPCs do not have their own fatigue bar.

-Swimming only drains fatigue when detected as being in water, and drains 10 stamina every 6 seconds. While under the influence of water, you cannot gain stamina. Swimming in lava or other WLD hazards such as PvP Arenas does not drain fatigue, there's a specific case in client code to handle this.

-Stamina is drained in reverse and is called 'fatigue' internally. It starts at 0, and when it is depleted, it goes up to 100. Any fatigue past 100 is reset to 100.

-Jumping drains 10 fatigue flat. If you do not have 10 fatigue left out of 100, the client will not let you jump

-Fatigue is regained with food at a rate of 10 fatigue per tick. Without food, it does not regenerate. The server determines how much fatigue you regen per tick.

-If you have less than 100 STA, this starts to negatively affect strength, dexterity, and agility by giving a penalty of (Fatigue - STA). This penalty, at the very least, will always remove 10 of a stat.
So if you have 57 STA somehow (debuffs maybe?), and 130 STR/DEX/AGI, and your stamina bar is depleted to 15% remaining, you will end up with a 27 stat
penalty to your STR/DEX/AGI stats, leaving you with 102 STR/DEX/AGI.

-Endurance and other Post-GoD systems are completely different than the fatigue system - endurance has values that exceed 100 and then some. They are not even remotely close, and weapons do not drain endurance.

- Fun tidbit - Back in the day, stamina was actually calculated by the client AND the server - the server even would trust the client's stamina if the client told the server it was different in a save request. That's obviously not the case with the endurance revamp, but still, lol!