Starting a warrior

[gnomishfirework]

On my pally, I was able to make enough to have full bronze by 12.

You can do it with a warrior. Kill every skeleton you see and collect the bone chips. Same for spiders. Sell the silk and bonechips in stacks of 20.
HQ bear pelts sell for 8-10pp.

Just make sure you pick a good race =P Ogre, Barb, Troll, or Dwarf are the way to go! Otherwise you are just too damn heavy if you aren't a twink. I did half-elf warrior way back when (I allocated starting points to dex and agil and str too =/) I ended up making it to 60 though, so I was doing something right. I was in ok gear, but I would have had loads more hp as an ogre =/ I tanked Vindi three times, and died all three times =P Two times under 50, one of which at less than 10%. He died both those times though.

Warriors can hold aggro fine in groups after teens with ok weapons. The whips will work, or obsidian shards till SSOY.

Im gonna twink up a warrior soon. Hybrid penalty sucks hardcore. I might go back to my pally (rerolled wizard) after I cap out and get pre-planar gear. I love tanking, but I've been itching to do damage of late.

[Phil]

If you really want to make the best tank I'd roll either a pal or an SK.

I'm a rogue at level 39 now and all throughout my grouping experiences warriors have consistently been inferior at holding agro compared to those other two. They can get it done, but I typically have to slow my dps at numerous occasions. Whereas with a pal or SK tank I simply wait for the disease cloud/blind and then just go all out.

Also of note : I'm decently geared, but I'm not a twink. This is my first character.

Also, I've never grouped with a warrior that had dual SSoY. Whips and Shards just don't seem to get the job done sometimes though.

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Phil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, I've never grouped with a warrior that had dual SSoY. Whips and Shards just don't seem to get the job done sometimes though.

people starting warriors going fully str/sta thinking they are MT + DPS is the problem here

proc weapons are the key. and for this they need DEX well above the 100+ mark.

just having whips or shards, or even yaks doesnt help at all if the warrior has150 STR and 90 DEX

so yes, in classic and the next 4 months to come knights are better tanks especialy if the warriors keep thinking they have to do dps too. knights have the luxury to go STR and actually do damage since they have the aggro tools in their spell books

the term "meatshield" has been invented for a reason, they have to take the hits and the aggro to be valuable for groups.

[vinx]

The hardest time for warrior is prolly between levels 10-25.
Just remember to use taunt "ONLY" when the mob turns on you, mashing the button does not accumulate agro.
Whips/shards should be your first goal for weps, you can also get a Obsidian FLamberge from SolA efreeti if you get a group down there. (same thing as shards except its a 2hs, and imo better then the shards) I used one from 24-50 :P
For solo as a warrior use a PGT or Axe of the SLayers, i love my AoTS, its saved me tons of hp solo'in stuffs.
Gear : bronze, then fill slots with fine plate and any crafted you quest/buy along the way.

[Omnimorph]

I'm starting a warrior too! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tseng]

Originally Posted by Phil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you really want to make the best tank I'd roll either a pal or an SK.

I'm a rogue at level 39 now and all throughout my grouping experiences warriors have consistently been inferior at holding agro compared to those other two. They can get it done, but I typically have to slow my dps at numerous occasions. Whereas with a pal or SK tank I simply wait for the disease cloud/blind and then just go all out.

Also of note : I'm decently geared, but I'm not a twink. This is my first character.

Also, I've never grouped with a warrior that had dual SSoY. Whips and Shards just don't seem to get the job done sometimes though.

Phil is a BOSS rogue. I'll vouch. Even though the Lakers lost.

[ukaking]

This is all good advice. Im a lvl 22 warrior and I've been having a good time/bad time in Uguk. Good times when we dont get trained. Bad times when we do. lol.
The run from Freeport is a long one.
My weapons are lacking and I need to stop in to EC tunnel and upgrade soon. I take pride in doing my best to take the hits and save the group when it gets ugly. So far so good.

[pickled_heretic]

I couldn't stand playing a warrior... auto attack, kick and taunt are your only three options at any given time; that makes it a class with an extremely low skill cap. Even though the 40% penalty is really pointless and stupid IMO it's still worth it just for the fact that you have more stuff to do in groups.

I rolled a shadowknight. My 2nd choice was a paladin (and I probably will make a paladin alt) and I love the utility I can bring in a group. I can invis and feign death which lets me sneak through dungeons and pull like a monk. I can snare (which is nice in many different situations, including dungeons), I can heal myself while dealing damage which is very nice for a tank, and aggro is very easy to hold. Outside, I can fear kite, which enabled me to solo sand giants at 33.

BTW if you're phil jackson, I've been opposite of you on mobs many a time; you're a real damage hose. Nice to see you on the forums.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by Phil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you really want to make the best tank I'd roll either a pal or an SK.

I'm a rogue at level 39 now and all throughout my grouping experiences warriors have consistently been inferior at holding agro compared to those other two. They can get it done, but I typically have to slow my dps at numerous occasions. Whereas with a pal or SK tank I simply wait for the disease cloud/blind and then just go all out.

Also of note : I'm decently geared, but I'm not a twink. This is my first character.

Also, I've never grouped with a warrior that had dual SSoY. Whips and Shards just don't seem to get the job done sometimes though.

Not singling Phil out as I'm sure he is an excellent rogue, but herein lies the problem, and the problem has nothing to do with Warriors as a class. And this is coming from a "professional" rogue main of 5 years from PoP era thru about TBS (75 w/ approx 1k AA) who was previously a SK main during Kunark thru sometime in Luclin:

All of these DPS classes, Bards, slowing classes, etc. want to be able to push assist (or whatever their role calls for in a group) and go at it full sail from the moment the mob enters the room till the end, not have to wait to be called to assist, and not have to think about how to help with aggro control, because that would apparently be too much work for them. Basicly they get to be impatient and lazy with hybrid tanks, and don't with warriors, so somehow that makes warriors inferior tanks. And that is just wrong, despite apparent popular opinion here.

Aggro control is a GROUP EFFORT. AGGRO CONTROL IS A GROUP EFFORT. Repeat this to yourself a few times, because you will need to repeat it to people in your groups a lot. Read what Phil wrote above.....That he has to "slow his DPS" with warriors to maintain aggro control. And? I really don't see what the problem is. Healing classes have to judiciously decide when to apply heals for best aggro control and mana efficiency, don't they? Well, so do DPS classes. Better get used to it, because you will have to do this later, especially if you plan to raid. EverQuest is a game built around class interdependence, so I really don't see what the problem is with people having to actually think about what they are doing in a group. Somehow the playerbase of P99 has managed to get the impression that pulling aggro, when you are not the tank, is the tank's problem when in reality it is usually a problem of YOURS, not the tank's, if everyone is playing their class even remotely responsibly. Rogues get evade. Monks get FD. All dps classes can wait a round or two for aggro to be established before throwing the kitchen sink. It's really NOT that hard to work together in this game to make things work properly. It might be EASIER and faster to cut corners now, but that has nothing to do with warriors in the grand scheme of things.

If the enchanter is pulling aggro everytime you duly taunt a mob before breaking mez, then he needs to be reminded to use root and/or memblur at the end of his mezz cycle. If he doesn't, he is lazy. Same goes for slowing. This is CLASSIC EQ...Nobody even knew what slow was for back in the day and it was rarely even used. If a chanter or shaman is pulling aggro with slow because they are hitting the mob with it the second it hits the room, tell them to wait till further into a fight or not slow at all. If slow must be used, it probably means your healing in the group is lacking. Not the fault of the tank. You will also quickly notice which bards you want to group with and which ones you don't. There ARE good bards here who know how to let you have aggro when you are trying to get it, you just have to wade through the array of twinks to find them. If there is a bard in the group, he probably should be doing the pulling, in which case, if he's doing his job right, he should be pulling singles the majority of the time, obviating the need for mezzing, making the whole pulling aggro off of him after mezzing discussion moot. All healing classes have root, so if they are pulling aggro, tell them to stop being lazy and use it if they have to. Etc. Etc. Etc.

You will still get blamed for a lot of this, because people like doing things on ez-mode, but stick to your guns. Having a thick skin goes a long way when playing a warrior, as does finding a solid group of people to play with. As does having a soloable alt or two that you can play when you just need a break or feel like you are about to strangle someone, because you will have those days.

Bottom line is, aside from the lack of available proccing weapons at low levels and the fact that beg is broken on this server (which completely borks a tried and true method of ghetto taunting for warriors) there is absolutely nothing wrong with the warrior class. It is entirely part of the design of the game for paladins and SKs to be able to snap aggro from other classes, including warriors and (in the case of SKs especially) being able to give it back, while, in the long haul, warriors are indeed the superior tank. People just like to call hybrids "better" and the like because they want to be lazy now in classic EQ.

It helps to realize that it is this particular era of EQ that made the devs give them lots of love in Kunark and beyond in the form of making them necessary for certain mobs and for a lot of the best group situations. There's a REASON the "holy trinity" that came about in Kunark is a "WARRIOR, cleric, and enchanter." I don't see Paladin or SK in that list, do you? This same conversation could probably be had about shaman, also, really. Pre-kunark, they were pretty much backup healers, sow casters, and junk-buffers. After Kunark their slow, and enchanters', became a vital part of a group. Enchanters got the spotlight immediately because CC was still of value in a big way, but it wasn't long before the need for well played shaman were vividly apparent and is probably why, now, you have to deal with pulling slow aggro off of casters here in retro-classic, ironicly.

Same goes for warriors. Hybrid tanks do not get disciplines of consequence. Warriors do. When you are 55+ and have good gear, you will out-tank most paladins and sks in terms of mana efficiency for the group and you will do it without the limitation of needing mana. And because the cleric is saving mana by healing you instead of a hybrid, not having an enchanter in the group to cast one spell isn't such a big deal clearing the way for shaman and their superior slow, saving the cleric even more mana, making the enchanter even less needed and, by extension, caster dps less desirable. Rogues and monks benefit from this also...Not having a chanter to clarity the mage to for dps isn't such a big deal when you have unlimited manaless dps....people thought rogues were useless in classic era too, btw, but they got lots of love in the same ways that warriors did after classic.....No one exists in a vaccum in EQ and it all works in cycles. You will convert the same STA to more HPS than hybrids and will convert the same gear to higher AC. And your class specific gear is tuned up in that regard compared to that of hybrids. In the event that this server finds itself in Luclin down the road (although I don't think it will) you will have AA that tunes you up even farther compared to those classes. And if you plan to raid, wait and see what you will be tanking then and what they will be doing. You will be the tank of choice for big mobs hands-down, while they will be tanking the trash and filling other roles. I don't remember hybrid tanks really coming back into their own as the ideal group tanks while warriors remained raid tanks until after PoP was out, at earliest, but I'm probably a little fuzzy on that and I'm not aware that they ever did in raids. I played a SK main during late kunark and velious era and I can remmember discussions at the time just before Luclin came out, or during Luclin of how the uberest of SKs who were at the top of their game could actually handle tanking SOME raid targets under SOME circumstances. And it was a shock to everyone at the time. Why? Because that's warrior territory and it had been for some time. And I can remember spending a lot of time LFG because groups wanted warriors to tank for them, although in fairness, I think a lot of that was due to the group exp penalty that had become apparent at the time.

You just have to deal with levelling up through classic with all of these obstacles (laziness and misinformation being chief among them) now, is all. Out of the box, and in this era, you will have an EASIER time with a paladin or SK and less of an ulcer getting levelled up. Lets face it, during this current era, you really don't even need tanks....Robed casters can do pretty much everything better, faster, and more efficiently than a group with tanks and the support needed for them. If you want easy, skip a tank altogether and play a mage. Right now...It changes with Kunark. If you do choose to stick it out, you will find yourself in a very good place come Kunark and beyond, IMO.

Good luck to you.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not singling Phil out as I'm sure he is an excellent rogue, but herein lies the problem, and the problem has nothing to do with Warriors as a class. And this is coming from a "professional" rogue main of 5 years from PoP era thru about TBS (75 w/ approx 1k AA) who was previously a SK main during Kunark thru sometime in Luclin:

All of these DPS classes, Bards, slowing classes, etc. want to be able to push assist (or whatever their role calls for in a group) and go at it full sail from the moment the mob enters the room till the end, not have to wait to be called to assist, and not have to think about how to help with aggro control, because that would apparently be too much work for them. Basicly they get to be impatient and lazy with hybrid tanks, and don't with warriors, so somehow that makes warriors inferior tanks. And that is just wrong, despite apparent popular opinion here.

Aggro control is a GROUP EFFORT. AGGRO CONTROL IS A GROUP EFFORT. Repeat this to yourself a few times, because you will need to repeat it to people in your groups a lot. Read what Phil wrote above.....That he has to "slow his DPS" with warriors to maintain aggro control. And? I really don't see what the problem is. Healing classes have to judiciously decide when to apply heals for best aggro control and mana efficiency, don't they? Well, so do DPS classes. Better get used to it, because you will have to do this later, especially if you plan to raid. EverQuest is a game built around class interdependence, so I really don't see what the problem is with people having to actually think about what they are doing in a group. Somehow the playerbase of P99 has managed to get the impression that pulling aggro, when you are not the tank, is the tank's problem when in reality it is usually a problem of YOURS, not the tank's, if everyone is playing their class even remotely responsibly. Rogues get evade. Monks get FD. All dps classes can wait a round or two for aggro to be established before throwing the kitchen sink. It's really NOT that hard to work together in this game to make things work properly. It might be EASIER and faster to cut corners now, but that has nothing to do with warriors in the grand scheme of things.

more wall of text

I didn't read all of this, but I think my original point still stands. I have to slow dps when I'm grouped with a warrior, but when I'm with an SK or paladin I just go all out. It's not a matter of me being impatient or lazy, it's a matter of me being able to do the most dps possible because the more I do the better off our group is. My sole job in a group is to do as much damage as possible without tanking. Part of me being able to accomplish this relies on the potency of our group's tank and not solely on how I time my dps/evade functions. Any given class can tank if given enough time to hold agro...what makes a good tank is needing as little amount of time possible on the mob to build that agro.

People pointed out that a lot of warriors perhaps don't gear themselves properly and this could be a big part of the problem. However, if warriors have to gimp their damage by stacking dex just to be able to hold agro, then doesn't this still make paladins and sks better tanks by being able to do more damage as well as hold agro?

Again this is only what I've found through the grouping stages of THIS game. Maybe warriors are better tanks for raid mobs? I don't know, I'm only level 39. Maybe they're better tanks in Kunark? I'm just talking about what I've experienced so far.

Also, thanks Tseng!! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Go Lakers!!