JBB, is it really that good?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you’d have to prove using jbb is somehow resulting in more kills per hour considering that’s how you seem to measure dps value in other threads frequently writing off minor dps gains.

You can’t say things like 20 extra str isnt worth it while also saying having jbb is good to have to mix in 1-2 clicks without providing actual evidence of real value.

We will await your defense of your contradicting claims.

I am not sure why you think 20 points of starting stats into STR is related to a mana free clickie nuke on a class that basically stops meleeing once they get JBB. Please stop trying to spout nonsense because you couldn't prove your point about starting stats in a different thread. I have video evidence of using JBB at 60. You have nonsensical commentary.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM, can you run a 2+ min parse showing how to mix in debuffs, dots, canni, torp, and JBB without letting them expire?

It should be as simple as copy/pasting your log file here.

For full disclosure I have my doubts the mix of clicks is as efficient as you think. I hope I’m wrong but rather than just taking something as truth we should probably see all the messages for ourselves.

I've already shown my Ionat fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 . I was averaging 4 Cannibalizes per Torpor on a marathon fight against a hard mob. That is about 20 seconds every minute. You can use your imagination to fill in the other 40 seconds.

You can also look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuVBewCNgY - I did 5000 damage to the Cliff Golem with just JBB, which is 1/6th of it's life.

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're 60 and casting on low blues, sure.

Pox doesn't get resisted that often on tough fights either. Not really sure why you keep insisting Pox gets resisted a lot. You have no evidence to back it up, and personally I haven't seen it. I use Pox a lot on tougher mobs, so I would have noticed if it was getting resisted a ton.

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

J
So you have 12s leftover before you NEED to Torpor again, and need to start canni'ing again for the next Torpor. Do you re-slow, refresh DoTs, , get a few extra cannibalize in, or click JBB? Hrmmm

I don't know how many times I have to keep saying you don't want to Torpor/Cannibalize all the time in certain fights. I don't know why people keep assuming this is true.

As a quick example https://youtu.be/oPxeOVuX0G8?feature=shared&t=745 - This video starts at 12:25. Between 12:25 and 12:33 I take 776 damage from Ionat and I was Cannibalizing, which was another 148 damage. In 8 seconds I took 924 damage while the mob was slowed. That is 35% of my total HP pool at 2620 life in 8 seconds, with buffs and raid gear. What if this damage spike occurred while you were in the middle of casting Torpor, and Torpor got interrupted? You could be taking 1500 damage or so total without Torpor. I've had bad luck like that happen before. It's simply not worth it to risk dying on a long fight like Ionat. You waste way more time dying than simply playing it safe and extending the fight a few minutes.

[Troxx]

no response to math?

[Penish]

If you've noticed, Silk is a legit headcase.

Literally 98% of the people in this thread know he's wrong, and have also proved it, yet somehow he still disregards any concrete information posted on these pages and moves right into I'm right mode.

Apparently this is the hill he's going to die on, lawl

[zelld52]

Wait Silky so you're saying if you're a shaman tanking a mob, you DONT want torpor up all the time?

I'm struggling to understand when that is.

[Penish]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait Silky so you're saying if you're a shaman tanking a mob, you DONT want torpor up all the time?

I'm struggling to understand when that is.

ill take this one for silky

its usually somewhere between where your brain or fingers fail

but he'll justify this somehow

im sure of it

also lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Penish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ill take this one for silky

its usually somewhere between where your brain or fingers fail

but he'll justify this somehow

im sure of it

also lol

We are still waiting for you to show us how to play. So far you are too cowardly to do so, and continue to concede you have no idea what you are talking about.

Thanks for showing you can only provide insults.

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait Silky so you're saying if you're a shaman tanking a mob, you DONT want torpor up all the time?

I'm struggling to understand when that is.

I didn't say that. Nice strawman. Please read next time. I said you don't want to cannibalize all the time, since damage spikes can kill you. On Ionat I average 4 cannibalizes per Torpor, with Torpor up all the time. It's silly to think you can always cannibalize the full 1200-1500 HP on a mob that can deal 800+ damage in 8 seconds while slowed.

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know how many times I have to keep saying you don't want to Torpor/Cannibalize all the time in certain fights. I don't know why people keep assuming this is true.

Did I misunderstand what you said here? You want Torpor up all the time. Torpor is 200 mana. Shaman need to cannibalize to get mana.

I'm just not understanding

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did I misunderstand what you said here? You want Torpor up all the time. Torpor is 200 mana. Shaman need to cannibalize to get mana.

I'm just not understanding

You are not understanding because you are interested in trying to "gotcha" me. Nowhere in that sentence do I say "You should not have Torpor up all the time". I said "Torpor/Cannibalize" to express the concept of using the HP from Torpor to Cannibalize. However, I agree I should have just said "Cannibalize" for absolute clarity. I can see why you might have thought "Torpor/Cannibalize" meant that I was including Torpor as a spell to not always cast. That was not my intent. You should always have Torpor up if you are able to.

Did you just ignore this part?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a quick example https://youtu.be/oPxeOVuX0G8?feature=shared&t=745 - This video starts at 12:25. Between 12:25 and 12:33 I take 776 damage from Ionat and I was Cannibalizing, which was another 148 damage. In 8 seconds I took 924 damage while the mob was slowed. That is 35% of my total HP pool at 2620 life in 8 seconds, with buffs and raid gear. What if this damage spike occurred while you were in the middle of casting Torpor, and Torpor got interrupted? You could be taking 1500 damage or so total without Torpor. I've had bad luck like that happen before. It's simply not worth it to risk dying on a long fight like Ionat. You waste way more time dying than simply playing it safe and extending the fight a few minutes.

The context of this part should have made it clear as to what I was saying. Taking a lot of damage in a short period of time means that you sometimes need to use Torpor to heal yourself, rather than exclusively using it for Cannibalize. This means you are not Cannibalizing, and can use that time for something else. If you get interrupted in the middle of recasting Torpor, you will not have it on for the next 6 seconds. That is not me suggesting you shouldn't have Torpor up all the time. However, the reality is sometimes you may not have Torpor on due to interrupts or fizzles. This is why you need to be tactical in using Cannibalize, instead of just assuming you can spam it all the time simply because you have Torpor as a spell.

[Toxigen]

100 PAGES INCOMING BOYS

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are not understanding because you are interested in trying to "gotcha" me. Nowhere in that sentence do I say "You should not have Torpor up all the time".

I'm not trying to "gotcha" you, bro. I want to understand what you mean.

I also never said that Torpor is exclusively for Cannibalize.

What I was saying, is that in my 2 years of experience as a level 60 shaman with Torpor: I don't see a good time to use JBB in a fight like this, unless I'm not tanking.

8s is more than 1 tick, and each tick is important in these fights. So if I had to choose between
using up 1.3 ticks on a JBB cast,
or a few Cannibalize,
or a re-slow,
or refreshing DoTs,
or casting a new Torpor
-- JBB would be the last thing on my list.

And from the fights I've had,... If I ever have downtime in my spell rotation, I Cannibalize. If I was too low HP to Cannibalize, wait a tick for Torpor to heal 300HP and then start Cannibalizing for the next Torpor.

And for levelling: JBB can break a root. Which is why I stopped using mine when I got epic at level 54. Much easier to root park 4 mobs and epic DoT them down simultaneously than it is to slow tank a mob and JBB spam. And no downtime with Root rotting, since you can Cannibalize and bandage while the mobs are rotting.

So, I agree with the consensus of most shaman who have reached 60 on p99, that JBB is basically a powerlevel from 45-52, but then it has diminishing returns the further you get into the 50s. So much so, that most shaman will sell their JBB after getting epic. (Or to help fund a Child's Tear MQ)