Sirken's proposal

[Elements]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Effort = Reward: Half the server is casual, half the server is FFA. Put your effort in that 50% or not, IDGAF.

Take a free mob first spawn of the month and have competiton thereafter.

[falkun]

Sure, I can start at the far casual side too: FFA the first mob of the month and rotate thereafter. But I don't think you are an idiot, so I cut the bullshit and started in the middle. I apologize for speeding this process along so you can get back to your dragons.

[Razdeline]

Serious Question: Wasn't it already an "advancement in tier" when a portion of BDA left for a more competitive raid scene? (And became Forceful Entry)

Wasn't it already an "advancement in tier" when TMO merged with DA for a more competitive raid scene? (And became TMO)

Wasn't it already an "advancement in tier" when a portion of Darkwind left for a more competitive raid scene? (And joined Inglourious Basterds)

If this is already happening, has happened, and will continue to happen; Why can't the casuals come to an agreement that guarantees them more than they have ever received before, in a rotational manner desired?

Sirken has already stated training will give entire guilds month long suspensions. Variance is going to be reduced, and all plans are on board to stop alt camping.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sadly I think many people are are not taking a step back, and logically thinking of the philosophy that made EQ great.

I have thought a lot on this subject, and when I think of EverQuest, I think of community. I think about what we have now in most MMOs, and how it has been destroyed through instancing the world. But I know EverQuest was a game that lived in a duality.

I once wrote on the /r/EQNext page about how I believe The Oasis of Marr, from a design standpoint, is the most telling, and wonderful zone in EverQuest. What you have in EverQuest, more than any other MMO today, is a system which Keohane and Nye would refer to as "Complex Interdependence". Normally, you have a system in which no one individual can do it all on his or her own, and they rely upon others in some way or another. You need to meet your friend? Well, you need a druid or wizard to help you. Your corpse is trapped down a well? Well, you need a necro to help you. You died and need a rez? Well, you need a cleric to help you. So this created a system in which players really relied upon one another, rather than needing to act independently of one another in a more greedy fashion, as we see exemplified in modern WoW.

This complex interdependence not only works between classes, but between levels, as higher levels tended to rely upon the lower levels to farm their bone chips, their bat wings, and all that good stuff, while at the same time, the lower levels relied upon the higher levels selling their bronze armor, their buffs, and all that good stuff.

So if you were a douchebag, and a notorious one, you were held socially accountable to people, as you'd start getting less and less help from others around you. People would be nicer to one another, not only because they are good people, but because it is a rationally smarter thing to do, given you must rely on others.

Further, lower level players and higher level players always interacted amongst each other while leveling. You had a Necro, a Cleric, someone on Spectres, an enchanter killing Giants, some high levels dishing out clarity, or killing Cazel while the low levels kill alligators and orcs. That's a level of interconnection you don't see in many games anymore. Instead, you have designated "Area A" for levels 1-5, Area B for 6-10... etc.

The issue I see is that there is very little need for interdependence, as most guilds can be more or less self-contained as you gain more and more power, and as the server continues on and content doesn't come quickly (which is in no way a rag at the speed of Velious, I completely understand, I am just saying that this is an outcome of that understandable fact), it allows for clustering of power which breaks down the complex interdependence between players. So complex interdependence has broken down on the server a good bit, but it also hangs on as many people are here due to nostalgia for this experience. EQ officially destroyed it with the Nexus and the Plane of Knowledge, which gimped a lot of the player interdependence. It was around that time, I believe, that they went to instanced raiding as well. Plane of Time, aye?

Most of that is not terribly relevant to the conversation at hand, but I truly believe that this is the single biggest philosophical contribution EQ did to online gaming, and it was shut down and destroyed by WoW's themepark model.

[svenghali]

Originally Posted by Moodie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't like the part where a single Trak kill locks you as a Tier 1 guild.

this. everything else seems well within reason but there should really be a different qualifier for tier 1 promotion. have only read like half of thread tho and not sure if this has been discussed more at length.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have thought a lot on this subject, and when I think of EverQuest, I think of community. I think about what we have now in most MMOs, and how it has been destroyed through instancing the world. But I know EverQuest was a game that lived in a duality.

I once wrote on the /r/EQNext page about how I believe The Oasis of Marr, from a design standpoint, is the most telling, and wonderful zone in EverQuest. What you have in EverQuest, more than any other MMO today, is a system which Keohane and Nye would refer to as "Complex Interdependence". Normally, you have a system in which no one individual can do it all on his or her own, and they rely upon others in some way or another. You need to meet your friend? Well, you need a druid or wizard to help you. Your corpse is trapped down a well? Well, you need a necro to help you. You died and need a rez? Well, you need a cleric to help you. So this created a system in which players really relied upon one another, rather than needing to act independently of one another in a more greedy fashion, as we see exemplified in modern WoW.

This complex interdependence not only works between classes, but between levels, as higher levels tended to rely upon the lower levels to farm their bone chips, their bat wings, and all that good stuff, while at the same time, the lower levels relied upon the higher levels selling their bronze armor, their buffs, and all that good stuff.

So if you were a douchebag, and a notorious one, you were held socially accountable to people, as you'd start getting less and less help from others around you. People would be nicer to one another, not only because they are good people, but because it is a rationally smarter thing to do, given you must rely on others.

Further, lower level players and higher level players always interacted amongst each other while leveling. You had a Necro, a Cleric, someone on Spectres, an enchanter killing Giants, some high levels dishing out clarity, or killing Cazel while the low levels kill alligators and orcs. That's a level of interconnection you don't see in many games anymore. Instead, you have designated "Area A" for levels 1-5, Area B for 6-10... etc.

The issue I see is that there is very little need for interdependence, as most guilds can be more or less self-contained as you gain more and more power, and as the server continues on and content doesn't come quickly (which is in no way a rag at the speed of Velious, I completely understand, I am just saying that this is an outcome of that understandable fact), it allows for clustering of power which breaks down the complex interdependence between players.

Most of that is not terribly relevant to the conversation at hand, but I truly believe that this is the single biggest philosophical contribution EQ did to online gaming, and it was shut down and destroyed by WoW's themepark model.

Finally someone that gets it. And this is finally happening. People are being held accountable, the community is solving the problem, and a solution is going to be put into place. If everyone can agree to give to eachother(contested & rotations), the service would only give more to the community.

[Butthead]

lol, iv been tryin to reach gm's since christmas. i got banned for sayin somethin i guess. i couldnt evn get an answer back.


i msg'd sirken and drebael, petitioned on the forum thing... and have been 'bumping' it as i was told.

any suggestions? wtfs going on hurr man

[falkun]

Sven, you are reading tier1 incorrectly. According to Sirken's proposal, tier1 means you kill Trak, CT, Inny, and/or VS against *only* other tier1 guilds for the first 8 days of the month, then the rest of the time all targets are FFA. Tier1 can still decide amongst themselves to rotate or FFA their T1 mobs, but they do not have to worry about tier2 killing them for the first 8 days.

See this graphic explanation:
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[YendorLootmonkey]

If the barrier to competition on this server is all the herp-derp, what if the herp-derp is removed (either by coding or heavy sanctions as a deterrence?) I think that's how Sirken designed this proposal. How much herp-derp do you have to remove before similarly sized guilds are on equal footing and can no longer use the herp-derp as an excuse as to not participate in the competition?

My issues are that this relies on extremely impartial and objective rulings (Amelinda sort of tainted that for us), accurately interpreted (and filmed) FRAPS, and lack of rules-lawyering, which history has shown us we are not capable of.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Xerxes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

29% lifetime raid attendance in fe...made maybe 50k in the past year and havent leveled an alt past 40 since joining fe...i still lead raids and pull mobs and help us win with what time i invest...bda dealt with raiding tmo head on while i was with them and yeah i didnt like it then i dont like it now...but id rather compete dirty on a video game then not compete at all...and i think you guys arguing over 4 vs/ct/trak/inny or 6 or 8 is pretty childish...yall should be figuring out how to get along and make a better raid scene...like fe offered bda a druushk rot on their attempt...that would have never happened w old tmo...expand on that...its getting better but maybe not as good as everyone wants...this behavior is just splitting us further apart...sorry i suck at forum posting black headband o7

so around 100 mobs spawn in a month not including VP

tier 1 gets 50
tier 2 gets 50

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE

tier 1 also gets the 24 spawns from VP

so a tier 1 guild can compete and get damn near 40 mobs just by breaking even on encounters

tier 2 guilds (7 of them) will be chopping the remaining 50.. so like 5+ per guild

casual scum asking for handouts while the top 2 are getting 6-7x more mobs, inconceivable