student loans are a hit!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Excerpt. 1954 ya'll!
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Origen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

America has like, a quarter of the world's total prisoners and we're about 4% of the total population

I know conservatives love to see lower class people incarcerated for crimes that more fortunate people can afford, but it obviously isn't working

Yea turns out it’s really really hard to permanently change someone like a sociopath or narcissists personalities. We also can’t rehabilitate things like pedopholia

But if you have some MKULTRA sort of way to re-program someone, I’m sure the penal system and behavioral health might be interested

Not committing multiple felonies is not rocket science. The majority of the poor know and understand how to avoid doing it their entire lives

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

But no longer are their numbers negligible. Propaganda (trickle down!) is a magical thing.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea turns out it’s really really hard to permanently change someone like a sociopath or narcissists personalities. We also can’t rehabilitate things like pedopholia

But if you have some MKULTRA sort of way to re-program someone, I’m sure the penal system and behavioral health might be interested

Not committing multiple felonies is not rocket science. The majority of the poor know and understand how to avoid doing it their entire lives

People need to understand what "being institutionalized" means.

It's not as simple as The Shawshank Redemption makes it out. It's far more extensive. Poor youth plan on doing times. It part of the rhythm. It's how fucking relationships get actually built. ("My girl is coming through this week!")

The class is the institution, not the prison. That's structuralism. Any given "structure" reflects the "structure" of the entire "assembly."

"Free people" should not feel too sure they ain't just as institutionalized as the brothers. Just a matter of if you know how to get beat yet. I know how to get beat. Do not let them near your hands. They know how to bust a nerve so you'll never hold a fork right. Let them have the ribs. Sounds counterintuitive, but that's kinda what they are for.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The assembly is called "Gestell" auf Deutsche.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because there are no other differences between the populations of 2 possibly very different states that might factor into those rates. Of course

Of course there are differences ... but none that reasonably explain why the crime rate is the same despite massively harsher penalties.

Look, criminals are bad people who do hurtful things. You want them to hurt and suffer in response: that's natural. In fact, it's very human. We have vengeance hard-wired into our DNA, because when we were evolving it was a key component of social behavior: societies that punished societal transgressors succeeded over ones that didn't.

But we're not in hunter-gatherer tribes anymore! We have these big brains that we also evolved. So either you can stick solely with your evolved gut vengeance motivation ... or you can use your big evolved human brain to actually look at the studies, and think logically.

Seriously, have whatever political beliefs you want, and want criminals to suffer whatever harsh penalties you can imagine ... but also live in and understand reality. In reality, in general (obviously this doesn't hold true for every crime/punishment) harsher penalties simply don't deter criminals from committing crimes

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People need to understand what "being institutionalized" means.

It's not as simple as The Shawshank Redemption makes it out. It's far more extensive. Poor youth plan on doing times.

I think if we looked at the numbers there are far more poor young people who do not expect themselves to do time in jail or prison than ones that do

I think your impression has been skewed by media

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course there are differences ... but none that reasonably explain why the crime rate is the same despite massively harsher penalties.

Look, criminals are bad people who do hurtful things. You want them to hurt and suffer in response: that's natural. In fact, it's very human. We have vengeance hard-wired into our DNA, because when we were evolving it was a key component of social behavior: societies that punished societal transgressors succeeded over ones that didn't.

But we're not in hunter-gatherer tribes anymore! We have these big brains that we also evolved. So either you can stick with your evolved gut vengeance motivation ... or you can use your big evolved human brain to actually look at the studies, and think logically.

Seriously, have whatever political beliefs you want, and want criminals to suffer whatever harsh penalties you can imagine ... but also live in and understand reality. In reality, in general (obviously this doesn't hold true for every crime/punishment) harsher penalties simply don't deter criminals from committing crimes

Those difference might play a significant role. You can’t just look at penalties and rates in a vacuum IMO, or I’m sure we can do that for a lot of other factors when it comes to offending and make ridiculous correlations

Justice is different from vengeance to me

Again, I feel like I’m a broken record here, but in REALITY, prisons are not effective at rehabilitation, because permanently transforming a sociopath into a good citizen is really fucking hard. So because they are not rehabilitated, it’s safer for the public for them to be in prison and away from them longer

[Lune]

Prisons not being effective at rehabilitation means all the more reason not to let them rot in there on the taxpayer dime for years and years before they eventually come out and commit another crime.

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because there are no other differences between the populations of 2 possibly very different states that might factor into those rates. Of course

Statisticians know how to control for variables as simple as two different states. I take it you have never learned statistics and are poo-pooing one of humanity's most powerful tools blindly. The causality of long term sentencing is pretty clear which is why most places in the US aren't doing it anymore.

[Elizondo]

Pages wasted chasing an obvious strawman

Obviously repeat offenders will not commit additional crimes if they are serving longer sentences