sk starting points

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have found bloodmaw and Mr turtle exceptionally good for comparing one weapon setup vs another setup - but that’s about it. Even then because of their low level it still doesn’t give you a perfect reflection of what you would expect on high end raid targets with high ac. In those fights damage bonus becomes a lot more important.

For example prior to the 2hand DB update TStaff and dual wield were very similar on bloodmaw but epic fist + a good offhand won on high ac raid targets due to lightening application of that static DB. After the 2h DB patch, TStaff wins all the time as dmg bonus on 30 delay 2hander is superior to DB on even super fast epic fists.

Again in my experience I didn’t learn much. I isolated variables, snared Bloodmaw near velks and combined 30 mins worth of parses for each weapon set. With my ranger two epics were within about 15% of the Meljeldin. The data was so garage I didn’t feel worthwhile to post and draw comparisons here.

In the end I feel the best way to see this stuff in action is to compare your sets (and peers) against non-trivial targets. Weapons like the Frostwrath on greens and blues lead people to believe they rival 2h. They simply do not.

As for how this impacts the sk starting point discussion, no clue lol. We are a bit past that though. Pushing new players to pump intel though usually isn’t the best path. It’s not as stupid as charisma for a paladin but the original devs saw a SK as 80/20 warrior to necro. Combat stats should be the priority.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the end I feel the best way to see this stuff in action is to compare your sets (and peers) against non-trivial targets. Weapons like the Frostwrath on greens and blues lead people to believe they rival 2h. They simply do not.

Even against blues Frostwrath does pretty similar DPS to my 2h sword. Their ratios are almost identical, with Frostwrath being a little worse. 1h weapons are not as bad as people think. Last time I parsed some HS mobs with Frostwrath vs. my 2h weapon the DPS numbers were also only a few points off.

We are not discussing raid DPS in this thread.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are not discussing raid DPS in this thread.

I saw the discussion of how strength affects a parse on a level 4 turtle. My point is it doesn’t. Drawing conclusions on the benefit of attack power when almost every hit is near maximum is a silly test. It’s like discussing the benefits of having a 4K mana SK if you never get past 75% mana while playing.

Yea it’s something to consider. But at least compare a situation that matters. My parse may not be enough to convince anyone here. It’s enough to convince me I won’t continue to spend hours for data that isn’t helping guide decisions. Whether in gear or how to select starting points.

I’m definitely backing out of this one. Page 9 to page 22 in one day? Wow.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

20 str should never ... EVER ... result in a 16% difference in dps. My parse was flawed despite it showing what I wanted it to.

[Lune]

Oh shit, DSM as in DSM-V, I just got it lol

Please tell me it's an elaborate troll

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh shit, DSM as in DSM-V, I just got it lol

Please tell me it's an elaborate troll

It was a tongue in cheek doctorly jab. I’m glad someone picked up on it lol.

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By the by, I have 2 level 1 female alts named Thelarche and Menarche.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The meltdown from Troxx has been spectacular, and a little sad. So many paragraphs spouting literal nonsense, instead of simply admitting he was wrong.

He is so afraid to be wrong he cannot even say what mob he was parsing.

For people interested in the topic at hand https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=211 here is real data. Thus far +20STR has provided me with 1.5 DPS over 40 minutes of autoattacks.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The meltdown from Troxx has been spectacular, and a little sad. So many paragraphs spouting literal nonsense, instead of simply admitting he was wrong.

He is so afraid to be wrong he cannot even say what mob he was parsing.

For people interested in the topic at hand https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=211 here is real data. Thus far +20STR has provided me with 1.5 DPS over 40 minutes of autoattacks.

Your constant editing is getting super annoying tbh. I actually saw that edit where you further changed it to bash Troxx even more. It's a bit borderline obsessive, you should really work on articulating your thoughts in full before posting.

Regardless, the fact that you showed 20 STR with a 2h increased your dps by nearly 3 pretty much proves that STR is the best leveling stat for a melee. This is something all should be aware of, and can decide what is best for their situation and how they plan to play their char. Even if you cap STR eventually, it's not really a big deal, because the trade off was you got to enjoy that extra DPS for a significant amount of time vs getting some extra mana at 60 once you cap STR that is unlikely to have any actual impact on anything you do besides the comfy feeling of knowing you optimized end game stats, which again depends on the player and how they want to react to it.

[Troxx]

Do you not find it odd that on Mr Turtle your 24/22 1.09 ratio 1hander was only 3.6% less damage than your 46/44 1.04 damage 2 hander with its massive damage bonus advantage?

Keep in mind that you get a damage bonus of 11 with every 1h hit. At 44 delay you get a DB of 37 with every hit. To break that down further at 34% haste assuming you couldn’t double attack per swing:

1h swing every 1.64 seconds for 11 dmg is 6.7 DB dmg per second potential
2h swing per 3.28 seconds for 37 dmg is 11.2 DB dmg per second potential

With double attack the potential difference is 13.4 and 22.4 respectively.

Your ToV 2hander should be putting out a ton more damage than the 1hander.

My parses used a 27/29 (0.93) and at 34% haste I was clocking well under half the damage output you did. The ratio and dmg bonus difference aren’t off by a factor of being 2.17x less damage man

TLDR version: Mr Turtle is a bad parse target.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your constant editing is getting super annoying tbh. I actually saw that edit where you further changed it to bash Troxx even more. It's a bit borderline obsessive, you should really work on articulating your thoughts in full before posting.

Your desire to attack/troll people instead of having civil conversation is a much bigger problem. I am simply defending myself, Troxx started the attacks.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regardless, the fact that you showed 20 STR with a 2h increased your dps by nearly 3 pretty much proves that STR is the best leveling stat for a melee. This is something all should be aware of, and can decide what is best for their situation and how they plan to play their char. Even if you cap STR eventually, it's not really a big deal, because the trade off was you got to enjoy that extra DPS for a significant amount of time vs getting some extra mana at 60 once you cap STR that is unlikely to have any actual impact on anything you do besides the comfy feeling of knowing you optimized end game stats, which again depends on the player and how they want to react to it.

Thus far my average DPS is 1.5, not 3. This number will probably go down on a lower level character, unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary.

The boost you are getting from STR is small, just like the boost from STA or INT. INT simply gives you it's benefits longer, due to STR being easy to cap.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My fight was against a trivial but nevertheless within xp giving range mob.

TLDR version: Mr Turtle is a bad parse target.

You haven't provided any evidence to suggest the turtle is skewing the data in a way that would matter for this discussion. You can't even tell us what mob you are parsing on lol.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My parses used a 27/29 (0.93) and at 34% haste I was clocking well under half the damage output you did. The ratio and dmg bonus difference aren’t off by a factor of being 2.17x less damage man.

I keep telling you, your parser is probably wrong, and bad. You could give us the logs so we can parse it ourselves.