Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[vinx]

I think teams gives the server a different spin then just PVE/PVP if theres a decent population
I wouldnt recommend team play here unless there was a way to opt out (regional guild thing from another thread)
if it was open FFA within your team then why even have teams when you can just make your own purist or race team/guild with its own pvp agenda

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember with TZ, VZ, SZ, and RZ we all saw 1000+ playing there in the beginning.

Let's not pretend that is a luxury here. FFA seems like the most logical option.

[Galacticus]

It was said somewhere here already that the problem with teams is the reliance on the population. If there are 300 people on with 3 teams, thats 100 people you cant pvp against, and a bunch of them you might want to kill for being jerks. Its hard coded, and takes away from player choice.

Why have hard coded teams when you can just make guilds that act just like teams except you can chose who goes where and what your name will be.

Nothing is stopping a powerful guild to pick a certian team and create a guild on that team. If you are on the Evil team, and the best guild on the evil team wont let you into their guild, you cant have the option to join the second best guild because they are on the good team and the same with the third best guild.

[Halister]

I think a big reason for the project 99 server going so well is that it stays true to the classic experience. I believe you should set the same vision for the pvp server. It's nice that you are playing around with different ideas but i think the best way to go is classic also in the pvp rule set. This would mean coin loot only, no item loot, no exp gain and no exp loss. There is definately enough incitament for pvp for spawns and zonecontroll without any exp or item loss.

This would probably best be complemented by a loot and scoot policy, like it was on live. I'm not exactly sure, but i think on tallon zek the policy was you die you leave the zone for 1 hour minimum. It worked out well there, i think it could here aswell.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Halister [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a big reason for the project 99 server going so well is that it stays true to the classic experience. I believe you should set the same vision for the pvp server.

If you're going to do that, you're going to have to go down the timeline just like the PvE server, which means (depending on the server you're advocating for, lets pick TZ like you said) item loot at launch. PvP changed a lot from when it first opened up, and totally depends on the server.

[Yukahwa]

Item loot is the only thing that makes the PVP actually intense and dangerous. It changes the dynamic and makes it so that ultra rich players are also risking their riches. Poor players risk less, but also will die more because they are weaker.

It means that ultra twinks wont get to just walk around with nothing to worry about. If you wear a fungi, you are not going to be messing around. Its better.

Coin loot certainly all coin. No XP gain. One item loot excluding weapons like it was for most of RZ. I don't think that on a PVP server recreation we need to go through all of the teathing periods of PVP including the length of time when weapons were lootable.

The above nailed it.

[Envious]

Originally Posted by Yukahwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Item loot is the only thing that makes the PVP actually intense and dangerous.

Lol, you want GM enforced LnS, but item loot?

Now you sound like you wanna play some Rallos styled WoW server~

The risk involved with LnS and Item loot is of the exact same TYPE, its called time. With LnS, you risk losing time of CR, with item loot you risk losing time farming that item.

The first time you make a 45min CR, just to get killed 2 or 3 more times, you will feel the risk as you toss your computer out of a window.

[juicedsixfo]

Originally Posted by Yukahwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think that on a PVP server recreation we need to go through all of the teathing periods of PVP including the length of time when weapons were lootable.

Or, or... the length of time when item loot was available. You've got a giant whole in your logic.

[Yukahwa]

Item loot was available on Rallos for the entire length of real everquest, which is what P99 is all about emulating. I imagine that this server will progress to velious and not further, which would mean item loot would be in tact for the entire span of the server. Great. I would rather have a COMPLETE rallos zek recreation (by a long shot) than one that doesn't allow item loot right from the get go. When augments hit, there was no reason for me to kill anyone except to make a noob feel bad when I take his DRT because those were the only players that actually had dropable gear. /weak

Item loot means that being strong is risky. It provides incentives for people to kill eachother besides just disputed camps and for the pride of killing another player. It means real thief dirtbags will have an incentive to betray their friends and kill them for loot at an opportune moment. It makes it harder to level..yeah. Who cares.

If I wanted to level in peace and be geared in peace I would keep playing on P99.

Its obvious that people from SZ support their ruleset, VZ/TZ support their ruleset, and people from RZ support theirs. Maybe this arguement can't be won.

For me PVP sucks without item loot.

Envious - yeah, the punishment for death with item loot vs. non item loot is much the same, you lose your time. The time you spent leveling, spent getting your corpse..whatever. But the incentive to kill someone virtually non existent for a lot of players when the only thing a kill earns you is a droplet of pride pixels.

[juicedsixfo]

Originally Posted by Yukahwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But the incentive to kill someone virtually non existent for a lot of players when the only thing a kill earns you is a droplet of pride pixels.

You mean the incentive to "gank" is lower.

[juicedsixfo]

This argument will never end but I just see more positive effects for the community with item loot out, hand over fist, than I can with leaving item loot in and catering to the 5% of UO players out there.