Game Mechanics: Mellee miss rate seems excessively high. - Page 20

Morndenkainen · #**191** 05-23-2010, 04:42 AM

On another note, howabout we all e-mail the guy who created EQ, and beg him to explain the system now that he's had a break with sony and verant? That'd put all the rumors to rest, and who knows, he might even decide to play on the server....

President · #**192** 05-23-2010, 03:36 PM

LOL I love how this retard makes up a formula and goes "oh its classic!"

girth · #**193** 05-23-2010, 05:27 PM

1 - I doubt any one person made the early melee system
2 - at least he's trying president [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

President · #**194** 05-23-2010, 06:08 PM

Hes still basing this off his memory and not any proof. His main point is he "remembers soloing up to level 23," which although stupid, could have been done over a long period of time. As Haynar stated, Melee was actually hitting "too much" off of the data he has. I don't find the miss rate out of the ordinary, I remember being pissed as fucking at low levels 10 years ago missing constantly. Haynar stated he believes there is a problem with AC (which I think most people have been aware of) that he has been working on for a long time. I also, as do many others, think there is an issue with how often mobs hit players, and the damage they do, though I don't care enough to investigate as I feel the game plays well in its current state. If Haynar is able to work out AC, and mob vs player damage/AC mitigation is worked out, then I think the OP may have an easier chance "soloing to level 23." It appears to me the OP had trouble doing what he believed he did 10 years ago and jumped straight to the conclusion that it HAD to be a PC miss rate issue, rather then AC/Mob hit rate.

**Aeolwind** · #**195** 05-23-2010, 06:15 PM

I'll double check some values, but I think when I found the way to tweak the melee values that I still left it actually short of what the rest of the emulator uses (Yep, I'm a dick =D). I'm on the process of recalculating AC's around the raid content and I can tell you that it is WAY off and most likely is the extra 2-3% over we're seeing AND the missing amount that I left for tweaking in the DB.

President · #**196** 05-23-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll double check some values, but I think when I found the way to tweak the melee values that I still left it actually short of what the rest of the emulator uses (Yep, I'm a dick =D). I'm on the process of recalculating AC's around the raid content and I can tell you that it is WAY off and most likely is the extra 2-3% over we're seeing AND the missing amount that I left for tweaking in the DB.

I gotta be honest Aeol... I've read this paragraph a few times and am not *quite* certain what you are talking about. Any chance you can expand upon this?

**Aeolwind** · #**197** 05-23-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I gotta be honest Aeol... I've read this paragraph a few times and am not *quite* certain what you are talking about. Any chance you can expand upon this?

Ok, there is a rule value that controls hit/miss rate at a variable level. Way back when it was WAY off, I tweaked it up. Problem improved a great deal. Based on what the "baseline" is for emulators there is still another I think 3% hit left in that variable we could go up.

Now, AC is totally fubar, pretty much around every mob. It was arbitrarily set either by us, or by someone else that created the mob.

Haynar said melee were hitting about 2-3% too much. Now, that means that AC is in the range of 2-3% relatively speaking. Now, couple that with the fact that the melee value is already 3% lower than what it should be, would mean that the actual value AC is off is about 6% relatively speaking.

In other words, if we tweak mob AC up right, we still have some wiggle room in variables to tweak players back in line if it swings too far the other way.

President · #**198** 05-23-2010, 07:11 PM

So is Haynar saying we are doing 2-3% too much damage in our hits, or we are connecting with the mob 2-3% too often? I guess they could still be related as far as overall difficulty goes, but I did not think AC had anything to do with miss/dodge/parry/etc.

stormlord · #**199** 05-23-2010, 07:36 PM

EQ has never had a good combat system. They basically threw it together trying to base it on D&D.

As far as my hit rate, I haven't noticed problems. Although I swear I was getting hit a lot when looting my corpse and that I got hit less and less until I was fully equipped. I know that's unrelated to pc hit rate.

And you know, generally, a combat system could have it where a mob hits you everytime and you hit the mob everytime, but neither would hit the other very hard. There's no universal law that says you have to miss or hit a certain way. A system is broke when it implicates a = b, but in reality, a != b. Otherwise, bleh.

The #1 thing I care about, as a player and a programmer and a gamer, is that I can work to change the outcome of events (like combat). Whether this is through learning about stats or items and changing them or, in general, changing the conditions of the fight, like when I run or when I attack or when I cast a spell, without my ability to change it then I am merely audience to a random number generator with no control whatsoever. I think random number generators add an element of realism to events that make them more believable, but without proper control mechanisms and forethought about how the player and the game come together, it can very quickly go from being a game to simply being a movie you watch where you're not participating.

**Aeolwind** · #**200** 05-23-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So is Haynar saying we are doing 2-3% too much damage in our hits, or we are connecting with the mob 2-3% too often? I guess they could still be related as far as overall difficulty goes, but I did not think AC had anything to do with miss/dodge/parry/etc.

Connecting 2-3% too much. AC affects damage dealt and frequency of max hits....it also does/can affect hit rate. A miss is not always a miss, sometimes it is a hit that glances off your armor. I could also be a thousand miles off the mark, but I discovered the AC "problem" while working in Sky. It was definitely evident. And by it being so out of whack, a lot of mobs were literally loot pinatas offering virtually no challenge, strikingly similar to now but surprisingly worse.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get the raid combat stuff tweaked around eventually to rectify that.