My proposal for Raiding guilds and GMs of P1999

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

make it within 24 hours once boss is spawned and iam all for it.

So you want to make a guild that could do it immediately wait on account of another guild not being able to get their shit together for up to 24 hours? Yeah....

[mitic]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you want to make a guild that could do it immediately wait on account of another guild not being able to get their shit together for up to 24 hours? Yeah....

lets be clear on this, other guilds else than DA or IB do in fact have a real life.

all this QQ about camping boss mobs with new suggestions to wait 2 or 6 hours before enganging wont solve anything else than still helping those 2 guilds and leaving everyone else out on bosses.

IF the server wants a fair play for EVERYONE, then we (yes, as a community)have to make a calendar system. if a guild wont make it to kill a boss on his spawn-day, the guild of the next week gets the shot.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IF the server wants a fair play for EVERYONE, then we (yes, as a community) have found just the game for them.

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[mitic]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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the irony lies within

every poster whining in all of those newly arised "raid-threads" would perfectly fit into the wow-universe

[nerfed]

Actually most bosses are currently killed within an hour of their spawn regardless of time zone.

[mitic]

Originally Posted by nerfed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually most bosses are currently killed within an hour of their spawn regardless of time zone.

yep, but by my understanding we are trying to find a solution to accomodate EVERY guild, am i rite or am i rite?

[nerfed]

FFA. I want some epic trains. Can we hire Abacabb as a mercenary?

[Omnimorph]

Originally Posted by nerfed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA. I want some epic trains. Can we hire Abacabb as a mercenary?

Mercs aren't classic! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GMs used to just despawn mobs if there was drama. It was tough but fair, no one could claim favouritism then!

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

================================Warning potential trolling section=

Now I can't resist to not point out the irony of this thread. Let's recap a bit here....

=============End of troll section=============================

Sorry, I really shouldn't have posted the trolling section but just couldn't resist at all the fake PR spin going on here. Like I said, Dumesh I hope you make another thread for your proposal... The original 4 points is my contribution to your post.

PS: It's 5am! Ignore grammar/spelling for all you internet grammar warriors!~

This sounds like a Chinese take on the Korean War. Please keep this kind of stuff out of the discussion.

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. 1 Hour afk = booted from server (this should fix the non raiders problem of getting booted randomly for being afk). Honestly if your going to be afk for more than an hour just log back on.

2. First to engage rule 15min, exactly like Dumesh outlined with a small adjustment here and there for specific bosses that requires planar clears.

3. Increase Time variance even more to + or - 7 ~ 10 days. Add in a flat 8 hours before variance starts on time of the death of the boss (Emil's idea). To further discourage camping even with these rules.

4. Offer draconian consequences for lying / fabricating incidents to GM. If proof was ever found that X person was guilty of making shit up, go beyond the 1 month ban. PERMA BAN of IP and account, repeat offenses from full members of X guild = dissolution of sketchy guild.

I would like to address each point and say that while I disagree with them, the reasons vary greatly from guild perspectives, serverwide population perspectives, and even in terms of GM involvement.

1. Having a hard server kick for AFKing is game changing for people other than raiders. If the server was running on a cable modem in someone's cellar and you want to keep the amount of data transfer down by keeping the population low, then fine. This server has a fairly pro setup and there is no reason to boot people off the server. If, perhaps, Rogean deems it reasonable to make it so as the server population grows, then so be it. This, however, is a "feature" that would have to be decided not by the players but by the GM staff. As the ruleset stands there is nothing against AFK camping. If they implemented this, their own server rules would be moot.

Something to note: a roll call clause was put into effect in the player made rulset to allow a guild to take rights from another guild if they were AFK to the point that they could not meet the minimum requirements to claim a raid force when a mob spawns. It has been used multiple times with little to no success. That tells me that there are enough people active that adding this rule will not alter the gamescape much.

2. Dumesh's idea still focuses on FFA and is only really applicable, as he said, to outside boss encounters. There are no outside boss encounters right now that are appropriate for this sort of thing unless you have very particular stipulations for CT. For future encounters it may be useful but you're relying on everyone to have the same timer, and to respect it. Not to mention the fact that by attempting to steal agro, you're pretty much going against server rules of attempting to KS engaged mobs. Find me a situation where you're not going to have an opposing raid force attempting to agro the mob off of the original kiter. If, on the flipside, you are saying that once agro a guild would have 15 minutes to get ready and engage while the kiter(s) kite, we might be on to something. I will say that for all of the outside dragons in Kunark and Velious, this is a pretty good idea. A guild can claim the spawn by actually having it agroed. If their guild fails to mobilize and engage the target within a set time period, they would lose their claim. No other guild will be able to interact with the dragon unless the kiters from the first guild die. I would expect some level of whining and foul play, though. Damaging a mob to make it summon would be the biggest offense, here. In the event of that, I hope the guild with claim would be ready to engage very quickly, but it defeats the level of respect that would need to be present for this rule to work. If we can calm down the current raiding environment, I would consider this one hell of a pro idea for later expansions and hope that it could discussed in the next guild meeting!


3. Increasing the spawn variance would be interesting but you're severely limiting the extent to which a raiding guild with the "kill the boss" mentality will even bother to log in. Whether or not this type of guild truly exists isn't apparent as of right now as the raiding climate is still in a state of flux. A flat timer before spawn variance even starts only pushes the window further out. Again, the same issue would exist. Since that timer would be known (or could be deduced) it only serves to increase the time between kills. If enough guilds are hot and bothered by the idea of a god or dragon kill, only seeing 2-3 a month is going to piss off a lot of people. On the flipside, this does make dragon and god loot more rare. I'd expect the market for CoFs and RBGs to maintain a highly inflated price for quite some time if either of these ideas were added. Not to say that it's bad but it would be a reasonable expectation. This would not affect overall "mudflation" too much but we'd still see sore spots in the market. I would go so far as to extend this to the idea that all drops should be more rare, whether through spawn rates or drop rate. It would give the game a more epic feeling, but to what extent is that a bad thing? And it's definitely not classic.

4. I don't even know what this would accomplish. As it stands the only bans that took effect were those when guilds first started bickering, and members of guilds that couldn't stop backtalking to GMs. As far as the events go that have been posted on the forums, any bans that occured were not about making stories up but basically disrespecting the staff. There has been suspicion of some activities between guilds but no hard evidence is available either way and because of that, there is very little to gain from it. If anything I'd see this more as an attempt to foster more intervention from GMs by creating a GM/Guide rule that says, "just ban us if we are terrible people" and not so much a deterrent to any particular actions. Enough things are possible in this game that it takes way too much proof to prove. This is a video game, not a courthouse.

[Wrei]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This sounds like a Chinese take on the Korean War. Please keep this kind of stuff out of the discussion.

Who are you again? I gave out a rather more truthful account of the brief raiding history on this server. Truth hurts, but it's relevant to point out how you guys are still spinning this thing into a "let's fix the problem here/If you try to spin your trolling". While ignoring the fact your the cause of it. Kind of like the guy who has his hand stuck in a vending machine, because he won't let go of that damn soda can. Just sad...

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Having a hard server kick for AFKing is game changing for people other than raiders. If the server was running on a cable modem in someone's cellar and you want to keep the amount of data transfer down by keeping the population low, then fine. This server has a fairly pro setup and there is no reason to boot people off the server. If, perhaps, Rogean deems it reasonable to make it so as the server population grows, then so be it. This, however, is a "feature" that would have to be decided not by the players but by the GM staff. As the ruleset stands there is nothing against AFK camping. If they implemented this, their own server rules would be moot.

Something to note: a roll call clause was put into effect in the player made rulset to allow a guild to take rights from another guild if they were AFK to the point that they could not meet the minimum requirements to claim a raid force when a mob spawns. It has been used multiple times with little to no success. That tells me that there are enough people active that adding this rule will not alter the gamescape much.

Please explain to me how a 1 hour kick will affect a non raider. How is that game changing? The person sitting afk in EC will suddenly find himself on server select... The person in an xp zone gets affected how? I'll argue it may even prevent dumb deaths by going afk. Server saves some bandwidth as you kindly pointed out. If anything it will ONLY affect raiders. Your saying camping sucks...but will keep doing it because it's within the rules...and will veto this idea because it will adversely affect your guild. I'm sure if DA was dominating everything, you'd be the first in line to preach about non camping [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. Dumesh's idea still focuses on FFA and is only really applicable, as he said, to outside boss encounters. There are no outside boss encounters right now that are appropriate for this sort of thing unless you have very particular stipulations for CT. For future encounters it may be useful but you're relying on everyone to have the same timer, and to respect it. Not to mention the fact that by attempting to steal agro, you're pretty much going against server rules of attempting to KS engaged mobs. Find me a situation where you're not going to have an opposing raid force attempting to agro the mob off of the original kiter. If, on the flipside, you are saying that once agro a guild would have 15 minutes to get ready and engage while the kiter(s) kite, we might be on to something. I will say that for all of the outside dragons in Kunark and Velious, this is a pretty good idea. A guild can claim the spawn by actually having it agroed. If their guild fails to mobilize and engage the target within a set time period, they would lose their claim. No other guild will be able to interact with the dragon unless the kiters from the first guild die. I would expect some level of whining and foul play, though. Damaging a mob to make it summon would be the biggest offense, here. In the event of that, I hope the guild with claim would be ready to engage very quickly, but it defeats the level of respect that would need to be present for this rule to work. If we can calm down the current raiding environment, I would consider this one hell of a pro idea for later expansions and hope that it could discussed in the next guild meeting!

The way I read it is, whoever tags the mob first has the rights to that mob for the next 15min. It's really simple... if you feel you can engage the mob then initiate the aggro. If your guild fails then you forfeit the right to the boss, so in essence no one will "accidentally" aggro a boss or claim another guild made me aggro the boss. Bosses requiring a planar clear can be worked out differently but can still be within the spirit of this new rule.

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Increasing the spawn variance would be interesting but you're severely limiting the extent to which a raiding guild with the "kill the boss" mentality will even bother to log in. Whether or not this type of guild truly exists isn't apparent as of right now as the raiding climate is still in a state of flux. A flat timer before spawn variance even starts only pushes the window further out. Again, the same issue would exist. Since that timer would be known (or could be deduced) it only serves to increase the time between kills. If enough guilds are hot and bothered by the idea of a god or dragon kill, only seeing 2-3 a month is going to piss off a lot of people. On the flipside, this does make dragon and god loot more rare. I'd expect the market for CoFs and RBGs to maintain a highly inflated price for quite some time if either of these ideas were added. Not to say that it's bad but it would be a reasonable expectation. This would not affect overall "mudflation" too much but we'd still see sore spots in the market. I would go so far as to extend this to the idea that all drops should be more rare, whether through spawn rates or drop rate. It would give the game a more epic feeling, but to what extent is that a bad thing? And it's definitely not classic.

I don't know about your guild but I assure you IB will always bother to log on for boss kills with or without the variance. This serves to further deter "camping" which was the whole point of this thread no? Instead of 4 Nagafen we might see 2~3... Will the casual player care? No, how is that ever going to affect them? Will the campers care? Fu@#$ yeah! It's one thing to ask someone to sit afk for 5 days but 10? Geez, there are human limits to going full retard. Once again this is to PREVENT camping... which was what we're trying to do here to find a solution. Mudflation? Are you serious? How many CoF and RBB's are floating in the EC tunnel? Your pro camping stance is understandable but come on that's some weak argument there...

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. I don't even know what this would accomplish. As it stands the only bans that took effect were those when guilds first started bickering, and members of guilds that couldn't stop backtalking to GMs. As far as the events go that have been posted on the forums, any bans that occured were not about making stories up but basically disrespecting the staff. There has been suspicion of some activities between guilds but no hard evidence is available either way and because of that, there is very little to gain from it. If anything I'd see this more as an attempt to foster more intervention from GMs by creating a GM/Guide rule that says, "just ban us if we are terrible people" and not so much a deterrent to any particular actions. Enough things are possible in this game that it takes way too much proof to prove. This is a video game, not a courthouse.

How about it will bring back some INTEGRITY? Yeah I know it's a hard quality to find in your heart but think about it. If you slap the guy crying wolf every week he'll whine about why he got slapped. If you gank the guy crying wolf every week, we won't ever have to hear his retarded lies. Seriously, lying/fabricating/distorting the truth is a bad thing in case you didn't know. There's NO CONSEQUENCES at this time... which allows sketchbags to pretty much claim/say anything without fear from repercussion. So why is it bad to perma ban someone that was proven to have blatantly lied about an event going forward? Some will still try but will at least pay the price for it if they are ever caught. You are correct, this is a video game and not a RL courthouse... if so why do we bother with rules? Why not make everything FFA, train each other... Because we want people to enjoy their experience playing this game. If getting lied to in order to get a favorable GM decision is your idea of fun then I got nothing to say on this matter.

PS: Seriously who are you again?