not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[Skope]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also variance is as much a pain for tmo/fe as it is for anyone else. pretty sure even though you insinuate it helps us both of our guilds would gladly see it gone.

You soak it up by having a much larger raid force. That's something that was never required on live. Consequently, you also have the highest turnover rates on this server -- and the server itself has a very high turnover rate as well. People get to the raid scene, see it for what it is and promptly get the hell out. I can't say I blame them.

That's what Sirken so brilliantly pointed out but that's also a P99-specific, non-classic problem. It exists here and only here is it drawn to such an extreme extent.

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

classic didn't have stagnant content for years on end...

Then why continue to kill the same stuff for years when they don't need the loot? Do those mobs not spawn under the same variance as they did when people needed it? Does it surprise anyone that you have to keep recruitment open year-round to replace those that have had enough of the time sink?

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You soak it up by having a much larger raid force. That's something that was never required on live. Consequently, you also have the highest turnover rates on this server -- and the server itself has a very high turnover rate as well. People get to the raid scene, see it for what it is and promptly get the hell out. I can't say I blame them.

That's what Sirken so brilliantly pointed out but that's also a P99-specific, non-classic problem. It exists here and only here is it drawn to such an extreme extent.



Then why continue to kill the same stuff for years when they don't need the loot? Do those mobs not spawn under the same variance as they did when people needed it? Does it surprise anyone that you have to keep recruitment open year-round to replace those that have had enough of the time sink?

i'm in a guild that hasn't even been around a year, so not sure why that is addressed at me. i used to be in divinity and when people in the guild complained about it i said the same stuff i said now. if you want the mobs have to put in the time, get organized, and get them not complain to devs and ask for handouts.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

classic didn't have stagnant content for years on end...

also variance is as much a pain for tmo/fe as it is for anyone else. pretty sure even though you insinuate it helps us both of our guilds would gladly see it gone.

No way Mav. Right now TMO/FE (i.e. the tracking guilds) get almost 100% of the targets. If variance were eliminated, there would be 500 people from 9 guilds sitting on the spawn of every target spamming target nearest mob and then /pet attack or archery or whatever. Since we all know that FE/TMO are far to honest to use autofire macros, it means they'd get maybe 40% of targets.

Now I don't think such a system is really better for the server than the current one. The advantage is that everyone gets a piece of the raid scene, the disadvantage is that that piece is pretty fucking retarded (every mob dies in 20 seconds to 300+ half lagged out players casting ice comet, GMs have to check every kill). My hope would be that after a month of this everyone would just agree to rotate/calendar/carebear/whatever and that the server would be come a bit less vicious at the high-end.

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by rsloans84 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

U dont have to raid just stay outta the drama

I don't understand why people don't understand the truth in this.

If you want to kill dragons join TMO or FE and be near your computer 24/7.
If you want to raid Fear/Hate/Sky then join one of the 5-6 scheduled day of the week raid guilds.
If you want to play casually play in a casual guild and log in whenever you want.

There is nothing stopping people from raiding. Joining a casual guild then complaining about not getting to kill dragons is like working as a waitress at red robin and bitching about the waitress at the steak house next door getting better tips. If you want to get the better shit then go to the establishment that allows that, but at the same time know the requirements are probably more demanding but hey, welcome to the real world.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No way Mav. Right now TMO/FE (i.e. the tracking guilds) get almost 100% of the targets. If variance were eliminated, there would be 500 people from 9 guilds sitting on the spawn of every target spamming target nearest mob and then /pet attack or archery or whatever. Since we all know that FE/TMO are far to honest to use autofire macros, it means they'd get maybe 40% of targets.

Now I don't think such a system is really better for the server than the current one. The advantage is that everyone gets a piece of the raid scene, the disadvantage is that that piece is pretty fucking retarded (every mob dies in 20 seconds to 300+ half lagged out players casting ice comet, GMs have to check every kill). My hope would be that after a month of this everyone would just agree to rotate/calendar/carebear/whatever and that the server would be come a bit less vicious at the high-end.

disagree. if this all started with a server reset you wouldn't have the scenario you described. you'd see what you see now with 9 guilds spreading out going after different targets. with no variance the next cycle the top guilds would probably still go after the same first priority mobs, but then have other chars camped at the next level of priorities and start splitting their raid forces. I can't see your scenario happening unless all the mobs were spread out significantly.

also, think you'd be surprised at the fte. i'd put it at tmo/fe getting closer to 80% of the mobs even if it was a crapfest based purely on being used to doing it and most likely having the exact timers from the first go round, but this would be an awful scenario and i'm sure no one wants that.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm in a guild that hasn't even been around a year, so not sure why that is addressed at me. i used to be in divinity and when people in the guild complained about it i said the same stuff i said now. if you want the mobs have to put in the time, get organized, and get them not complain to devs and ask for handouts.

Dear God, you are an idiot.

Nobody is asking for handouts nor are these guilds incapable of killing a target because of a lack of organization. We've had raid leaders from FoH in Div, mav. You know full well that we're not exactly noobs. This applies to a good chunk of the raiding population that isn't TMO/FE. The only reason they can't get mobs is because of the nonsensical time sink that's required.

Just to be a "casual" raider on here requires significantly more time than it did on live. To be able to kill VS requires that you camp alts there, fully buffed, and have enough people in your guild to be able to respond at any time of the day. I'm sure it's hard killing trakonan with >60 when the roster includes ~200. And after years of doing that it also becomes much easier to buy trackers, CoTH bots, and whatever else you need to maintain that edge. That's going to be something that's a huge hindrance/cockblock come velious and won't ever be addressed.

It gets to a point where you become deflated and say, "Fuck it. Why bother?" It isn't because these guilds and people are incapable of killing the mob under classic rules and mechanics -- remember most of us have without putting in anywhere near the same amount of time you're putting in -- but rules that specifically favor these massive zerg forces.

After tracking and watching trak/sev/tal and even gore die within minutes of a spawn purely because that other guild has much higher numbers and rules that require it, you stop tracking for good and say, "Fuck it." Then when an even larger variance is added (even if by accident) you have to wonder just what the hell they're thinking...

[arsenalpow]

Actually VS is an encounter where TMO and FE have at least a stall group near/in his room at all times during the window because he's poorly tuned. An evasive warrior and cleric can stall VS long enough for a raid force to log in before evasive drops.

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then when an even larger variance is added (even if by accident) you have to wonder just what the hell they're thinking...

If by they you mean the people in TMO & FE that track for 3 days straight.

Well they have a system that promotes people to want to do that. My friend has been apping for 2 weeks and plays a lot, he hit 60 and now he sits and tracks spawns all day. Allows him to build DKP up so he can get gear quicker than if he did his own thing all day and only showed up when dragons spawned.

So if you have people willing to do it, then why not? All I hear is, "I don't want to track mobs 24/7, so nobody else should either."

[Skope]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually VS is an encounter where TMO and FE have at least a stall group near/in his room at all times during the window because he's poorly tuned. An evasive warrior and cleric can stall VS long enough for a raid force to log in before evasive drops.

When you've got a plethora of accounts and players to choose from, you can afford to do that. And that's exactly what I mean.

People are claiming that velious will change this but it won't. If the rules stay the same it will only mean more alts and accounts camped at targets and even larger zerg forces. That's exactly what the rules favor, so why stray from that? Are TMO/FE leaving up targets they don't need now? What in the world makes you think it'll be any different come velious?

Server repops are the only thing that's remotely classic about P99's raid scene, and they happen once every few months. That's downright atrocious.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you've got a plethora of accounts and players to choose from, you can afford to do that. And that's exactly what I mean.

People are claiming that velious will change this but it won't. If the rules stay the same it will only mean more alts and accounts camped at targets and even larger zerg forces. That's exactly what the rules favor, so why stray from that? Are TMO/FE leaving up targets they don't need now? What in the world makes you think it'll be any different come velious?

Server repops are the only thing that's remotely classic about P99's raid scene, and they happen once every few months. That's downright atrocious.

velious will change that and maybe you shouldn't call other people idiots if you can't understand that, because clearly you would fall into that category. Velious raid targets will be the priority and outside of that you have pom/pog/whichever armor farm zone you decide to go to that will produce better bang for your buck than going back and killing the majority of kunark mobs. also with vindi on a fast timer he is going to be very contested.