Noble Dojorn Timers

[Pint]

So what we're really supposed to pull from this is that we cant count on Taken as long as there are potential pixels on the line.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what we're really supposed to pull from this is that we cant count on Taken as long as there are potential pixels on the line.

Well that's not really fair. Overseers have been an endangered species as of late and Catherin is correct in saying that there is no firm agreement in place. If Overseers are going to be killed then Taken figured it might as well be at their hand.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well that's not really fair. Overseers have been an endangered species as of late and Catherin is correct in saying that there is no firm agreement in place. If Overseers are going to be killed then Taken figured it might as well be at their hand.

You could read it like that, sounded more like someone else left an OoA up in good faith and Taken decided not to wait to find out who the weak link in the agreement would be.

[bktroost]

Taken, the last OOA was killed before IB made the agreement to leave OOAs up. As of 4 days ago we had a new agreement signed by EVERYONE in the sky rotation to leave the OOAs alive. This is a fully signed agreement and has 0 caveats or loop holes in regards to keeping the OOAs alive.

There is no reason why any guild who signed this should have any doubt--from this moment forward--as to whether or not they should leave the OOAs up. Everyone in this rotation agrees.

As of this moment right now let no one claim ignorance that the OOAs are hands off and this has been fully agreed upon by everyone in the sky rotation.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Taken, the last OOA was killed before IB made the agreement to leave OOAs up. As of 4 days ago we had a new agreement signed by EVERYONE in the sky rotation to leave the OOAs alive. This is a fully signed agreement and has 0 caveats or loop holes in regards to keeping the OOAs alive.

There is no reason why any guild who signed this should have any doubt--from this moment forward--as to whether or not they should leave the OOAs up. Everyone in this rotation agrees.

As of this moment right now let no one claim ignorance that the OOAs are hands off and this has been fully agreed upon by everyone in the sky rotation.

I have yet to see even a half consensus about whether we can get everyone to agree to allow the GMs to enforce punishments should a guild breaks the agreement and kills the Overseers.

You are JUMPING and LEAPING to conclusions. All sky guilds ( minus Bob) have said they will not kill Overseers however there is still no agreement on whether we can get everyone to support GM intervention should another 'bad day for us' event happens and a guild decides to kill the Overseers after signing this agreement.

I have not seen TMO or IB say they support GMs helping police this agreement.

Taken has since the moment IB killed Overseers been consistent: there is no agreement as the previous one broke the second an Overseer was slain.

Its nice and good that others are rushing to push this back through and get the cycle going again, but again it is futile unless we can get some ability to hold people accountable for their actions.

Taken has had a crystal clear stance on this.

We wont kill any Overseers once an OFFICIAL agreement is in place and all we are waiting to see is full support of the Devs to police this and right now I dont think the Devs think we have any kind of consensus or they would have commented.

Class R ( minus Bob) seems to be pretty much in agreement with:

1. Nobles are raid mobs and cannot be killed on suspension
2. Overseers will not be killed in order to spawn more Nobles

Any guild that breaks #2 is subject to punishment from the GMs whether that be a raid suspension, a sky suspension, a Noble suspension....I dont know

No one has even started to discuss that.

We need to give the GMs a policy they can enforce and stop crying about things. Everyone rather bicker and point fingers at who they feel is in the wrong rather than try to come up with tangible things the GMs can hold us accountable to.

The GMs are not responsible for how the players divy up Nobles, Class R has own our methods to deal with that as did TMO and IB. That is fine and dandy but we dont need an agreement on Noble Dojorn besides declaring him ( and the cycle ) raid mobs.

We need to stop derailing this thread with talk about how to deal with the extra Nobles, it is irrelevant. What we need right now is a hard lined consensus from all the guilds involved in this whether they agree to

1. Nobles are raid mobs and cannot be killed on suspension
2. Overseers will not be killed in order to spawn more Nobles

and what kind of punishments they would like to see or agree to should someone break #2.

So until we have everyone chiming in about that, I am sorry Nemce but there is no current agreement no matter how many times guilds run here and say they wont kill them

We tried that last time and all it took was 1 bad day to throw it all away. No point going down that path again without something hard lined.

[-Catherin-]

Hows this:

The Guild that killed OoA last weekend and is refusing to admit to it comes forward, admits to killing it, and promises to cut it out. Then I can see about what we can do to get things back in order.

Right now you have absolutely no leg to stand on telling me that the same Guild that killed overseer last week behind everyone's backs won't just do it again. That's the rub. Get them to come forward and some GM enforcement behind the agreement in regards to the overseer and then we can look at moving forward.

[Artaenc]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As of this moment right now let no one claim ignorance that the OOAs are hands off and this has been fully agreed upon by everyone in the sky rotation.

The next time an OOA is killed by a guild that agreed to leave them up I'll be done with this and we'll all need to learn how to use autofire if that's even legal to use on the server. This includes Taken.

[Ella`Ella]

In light of Taken's repeated actions regarding the Overseers, TMO sees no reason to abide by the former agreement that was in place. We came to Taken yesterday with reason, suggesting that they are in a critical position to either stand down and be part of the solution by setting a precedent and not engaging or they could continue to exacerbate the problem by continuing to kill OoA's. Unfortunately, Taken chose the former.

In response, TMO will now begin keeping noble timer and engaging Noble as an FFA target and continuing on with the freeti cycle (Noble>Overseer>Hand) until further notice. We apologize in this unfortunate circumstance, but if we are to accept Taken's logic as to why they killed Overseer's than we must treat this situation in concordance to that line of rationale.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In light of Taken's repeated actions regarding the Overseers, TMO sees no reason to abide by the former agreement that was in place. We came to Taken yesterday with reason, suggesting that they are in a critical position to either stand down and be part of the solution by setting a precedent and not engaging or they could continue to exacerbate the problem by continuing to kill OoA's. Unfortunately, Taken chose the former.

In response, TMO will now begin keeping noble timer and engaging Noble as an FFA target and continuing on with the freeti cycle (Noble>Overseer>Hand) until further notice. We apologize in this unfortunate circumstance, but if we are to accept Taken's logic as to why they killed Overseer's than we must treat this situation in concordance to that line of rationale.

this makes no sense at all.

We have said from day 1 there is no agreement without players agreeing to a punishment should agreement to be broken.

but this is a great way to paint us as villains here when

TMO, the pinnacle of raiding, cant handle missing out on some Efreetis while not recognizing that a real deal, something clearly defined that holds guilds accountable is still currently not in place. Classy.

A. We did not break the original agreement, and once it was broken a new one needed to be forged with real tangible accountability ( GM enforced )
B. We left OoA up last week and then he died but no one had a shit storm about that

A couple people chimed in they wouldnt kill Overseer but still no word about support for GM punishment should deal be broken.

It is unfortunate that TMO cannot see the forest past the trees.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In light of Taken's repeated actions regarding the Overseers, TMO sees no reason to abide by the former agreement that was in place. We came to Taken yesterday with reason, suggesting that they are in a critical position to either stand down and be part of the solution by setting a precedent and not engaging or they could continue to exacerbate the problem by continuing to kill OoA's. Unfortunately, Taken chose the former.

In response, TMO will now begin keeping noble timer and engaging Noble as an FFA target and continuing on with the freeti cycle (Noble>Overseer>Hand) until further notice. We apologize in this unfortunate circumstance, but if we are to accept Taken's logic as to why they killed Overseer's than we must treat this situation in concordance to that line of rationale.

At least you are finally being honest about your intentions so I can give you respect where it is due for that.

I'll ask again though, where was this outrage last week, when Taken left the Overseer up in good faith and it was then killed? Once again, by a Guild who refuses to step forward, admit it, and agree that it will stop.

If you don't have that then you have no agreement anyways. So your attempt to make us look like the bad guys changes nothing.