Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[Ringi]

Probably not. The GINA trigger probably goes off of the /ran 0 1000 spam message. It would say 901 to 1000 in your case and probably wouldn't meet the criteria of what GINA is looking for.

[Bardp1999]

you might be able to fool GINA with a /emote

[Ringi]

Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you might be able to fool GINA with a /emote

Possibly, but depends on how well designed the script is. It'd definitely be a different spam.

That said, now that this is out there, it's likely, if there WAS any scripting/autofiring (again, we cannot prove cheating without the GMs help, but it definitely appears fishy), unless the accused are the most cavalier, it probably won't be used until people forget about this thread.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any real life sports analogy is irrelevant. There is no internet between Armstrong and his Bike, Armstrong and his muscles, etc. That is why online gaming is different. There is an intermediary between the player who is at their computer, and the other observers on different computers. That is why gaming tournaments are always done as a LAN party, to remove those factors as much as humanly possible.

But the analogy was based on psychology, not technology or a lack thereof. Still, even between these two very different settings there is one glaring similarity—the unknown that exists between competitors and those officiating over the competition, to ensure that there is no unfair advantage; whether that advantage is gained through doping or coding is irrelevant. Accountability? Soon™

Human behavior on the internet affords each user more opportunities to do what they otherwise might not in person, because of the relative anonymity. Game and forum accounts not being connected on here allows for some of that anonymity, despite the fact that this is a relatively small community. Players recognize that most punishments can be circumvented and they absolve themselves of any guilt because, according to them, it's just a game, so it doesn't matter who does what here. That dismissive attitude towards the importance of a community leads me to believe they will do anything to win. The only concern for the community they might have would be to ensure that someone, anyone shows up to be outperformed and mocked. This might be due to the fact that they're bored with decades-old NPCs in a PVE setting.

Even this thread has been turned into a competition by those who would have gained more credibility and roused less suspicion if they had instead treated the OP's evidence as an opportunity to work with others, rather than against.

[xdrcfrx]

there are two parallel issues here, which are being conflated.

1) Did/does Stunningly cheat by using some kind of script to begin the race when his log file registers a /random of 900+? This is, of course, not provable. The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed. Whether or not this is enough to punish Stunningly is ultimately a GM judgment call - presumably, since this very drama played out several months ago, it is not. This does not exonerate Stunningly - a finding of not guilty is not the same as actually being innocent.

2) Is it possible, generally, to cheat the start of races that have a /random roll off as the condition on which runners can go? This is shown unequivocally to be true. Kickenit demonstrated just how easy someone could cheat these races. All of the hand waiving and deflection doesn't change the fact that we know for certain that someone who wants to set up an automated start to get a good jump off the line can do so with very little difficulty. This is actually the more important of these two issues, as it calls into question the legitimacy not just of a single player, but of the method to competing for FTE itself.

Coth racing was removed because it *could* be cheated. The Badain turn in was changed because it *could* be cheated. Scout is a roll and not a clickfest because it *could* be cheated. Just because no one specific was ever penalized doesn't mean the cheating wasn't happening, and GM's aren't required to have 95%+ confidence variable statistical certainty to change how things operate.

This isn't necessarily justification for punishing Stunningly or Vanquish. It should be justification for getting rid of footraces in favor of almost anything else, though.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are two parallel issues here, which are being conflated.

1) Did/does Stunningly cheat by using some kind of script to begin the race when his log file registers a /random of 900+? This is, of course, not provable. The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed. Whether or not this is enough to punish Stunningly is ultimately a GM judgment call - presumably, since this very drama played out several months ago, it is not. This does not exonerate Stunningly - a finding of not guilty is not the same as actually being innocent.

2) Is it possible, generally, to cheat the start of races that have a /random roll off as the condition on which runners can go? This is shown unequivocally to be true. Kickenit demonstrated just how easy someone could cheat these races. All of the hand waiving and deflection doesn't change the fact that we know for certain that someone who wants to set up an automated start to get a good jump off the line can do so with very little difficulty. This is actually the more important of these two issues, as it calls into question the legitimacy not just of a single player, but of the method to competing for FTE itself.

Coth racing was removed because it *could* be cheated. The Badain turn in was changed because it *could* be cheated. Scout is a roll and not a clickfest because it *could* be cheated. Just because no one specific was ever penalized doesn't mean the cheating wasn't happening, and GM's aren't required to have 95%+ confidence variable statistical certainty to change how things operate.

This isn't necessarily justification for punishing Stunningly or Vanquish. It should be justification for getting rid of footraces in favor of almost anything else, though.

It was literally already proven months ago. Riot said they were going to script for the race to prove that Vanquish had been scripting. They literally did it as a sting operation on vanquish and proved that the vanquish character was scripting

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was literally already proven months ago. Riot said they were going to script for the race to prove that Vanquish had been scripting. They literally did it as a sting operation on vanquish and proved that the vanquish character was scripting

Evidence was provided which I think is persuasive and would allow for an individual to conclude that Stunningly is doing that, but I don't think it can be "proven" in the sense that we cannot know it to be an absolute certainty, short of Stunningly admitting it. In the same way, Stunningly and Vanquish essentially cannot prove that he isn't doing it, because as the often repeated phrase goes: you can't prove a negative. They can rebut the claims, and they can offer alternative explanations which may or may not be persuasive, but they cannot actually *prove* that Stunningly ISN'T scripting his race starts, logically.

In any event, the important part isn't if Stunningly the individual is doing it, or even if multiple people are. The meaningful aspect of this is that the legitimacy of the actual means of competing for FTE is called into question. Without some very compelling answers, it's not unreasonable to treat footraces with a /random 1000 start as fundamentally flawed to the point of being illegitimate and therefore unfair. If what we are seeking on p99 is a place for fair competition, then this model should no longer be considered viable. The task now is to find something to replace it.

[Ringi]

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, OP tried to petition Stunningly for cheating. GMs didn’t find any evidence, but OP has nothing to show for 2 months of work lol so here we are.

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are two parallel issues here, which are being conflated.

1) Did/does Stunningly cheat by using some kind of script to begin the race when his log file registers a /random of 900+? This is, of course, not provable. The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed. Whether or not this is enough to punish Stunningly is ultimately a GM judgment call - presumably, since this very drama played out several months ago, it is not. This does not exonerate Stunningly - a finding of not guilty is not the same as actually being innocent.

2) Is it possible, generally, to cheat the start of races that have a /random roll off as the condition on which runners can go? This is shown unequivocally to be true. Kickenit demonstrated just how easy someone could cheat these races. All of the hand waiving and deflection doesn't change the fact that we know for certain that someone who wants to set up an automated start to get a good jump off the line can do so with very little difficulty. This is actually the more important of these two issues, as it calls into question the legitimacy not just of a single player, but of the method to competing for FTE itself.

Coth racing was removed because it *could* be cheated. The Badain turn in was changed because it *could* be cheated. Scout is a roll and not a clickfest because it *could* be cheated. Just because no one specific was ever penalized doesn't mean the cheating wasn't happening, and GM's aren't required to have 95%+ confidence variable statistical certainty to change how things operate.

This isn't necessarily justification for punishing Stunningly or Vanquish. It should be justification for getting rid of footraces in favor of almost anything else, though.

[Ringi]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are two parallel issues here, which are being conflated.

1) Did/does Stunningly cheat by using some kind of script to begin the race when his log file registers a /random of 900+? This is, of course, not provable. The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed. Whether or not this is enough to punish Stunningly is ultimately a GM judgment call - presumably, since this very drama played out several months ago, it is not. This does not exonerate Stunningly - a finding of not guilty is not the same as actually being innocent.

2) Is it possible, generally, to cheat the start of races that have a /random roll off as the condition on which runners can go? This is shown unequivocally to be true. Kickenit demonstrated just how easy someone could cheat these races. All of the hand waiving and deflection doesn't change the fact that we know for certain that someone who wants to set up an automated start to get a good jump off the line can do so with very little difficulty. This is actually the more important of these two issues, as it calls into question the legitimacy not just of a single player, but of the method to competing for FTE itself.

Coth racing was removed because it *could* be cheated. The Badain turn in was changed because it *could* be cheated. Scout is a roll and not a clickfest because it *could* be cheated. Just because no one specific was ever penalized doesn't mean the cheating wasn't happening, and GM's aren't required to have 95%+ confidence variable statistical certainty to change how things operate.

This isn't necessarily justification for punishing Stunningly or Vanquish. It should be justification for getting rid of footraces in favor of almost anything else, though.

I think I agree with this. I also wonder if anything will ever become suitable of an arrangement, outside of permanent drafts between quake events, or drastically reduced repop windows, because now the new meta is to just do whatever the fuck you want when it comes to managing your FTEs or bringing 150 people to a Vindi raid for a 30 dkp chest.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed.

Only because you don't understand what he's saying enough to realize that it's pure bullshit.

You believe it because you want to believe it.

Not because OP was able to prove anything.

Why is someone who is practiced enough to be better than everybody always better than everybody? Hmmm... Let's think about this for a second.