Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Tamiah2011 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude no risk factor means no pvp..People play pvp for reward not for the fun of killing unskilled players.Coin loot is gay cause noone with half a brain would have coinage on them.Most smart player used mules.Without Item loot you have a bunch of twink players logged in dungeouns ganking people.

Risk is still there, coin loss, but most importantly xp loss.

The reality is that when people can bag stuff, they will. Your talking about smart people using mules and not carrying coin, you think they wont be as smart when it comes to bagging gear, or the fact that there wont be very many melee characters because of how item loot hits them the hardest.

What makes you think twinks cant exist with no drop gear their higher level characters helped them get? Plus what chance would you stand against a fully twinked character with full hp gear and badass weapons with half of your gear. The twink will win, no matter if loot is there or not. Just wait till 4 twinked characters roll together taking out people.

The reality is 98% of the time, you wont get shit off of someone worth anything you couldnt get doing something else in the same time.

[juicedsixfo]

Originally Posted by Tamiah2011 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude no risk factor means no pvp..

Dude what? No risk? First off all, "less risk" will encourage people to stay in fight in situations where they would be running and bagging otherwise. Less risk will mean more and better PvP. Instead of fights stopping at 30% while the melee would run and bag, they'd actually stay and fight.

Corpse runs on a classic server will be plenty of "risk" enough. Remember, no soul binders all over the world.

Originally Posted by Tamiah2011 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People play pvp for reward not for the fun of killing unskilled players.Coin loot is gay cause noone with half a brain would have coinage on them.Most smart player used mules.Without Item loot you have a bunch of twink players logged in dungeouns ganking people.

Did you ever play EverQuest? The "reward" is your reputation, or the camp you just held down with the loot, or the impossible corpse run you just made for that dickless retard who griefed you back in the day. Item loot was a failed idea.

[Haul]

Originally Posted by boss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Definitely need global ooc

No, it's definately not needed at all.

[Haul]

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Item loot = NO.

It encourages people to bag things or play the game half naked(not fun). It gives certain classes advantages over others where gear is more important for non-casters. It also encourages a lust for gear that is filled by backstabbing, tricking people to meet you somewhere to gank them with a hit squad waiting to port in and ambush them. Also once you hit the bottom tier of the highest level of people, aka the first guild that pushes into the planes and get the no drop gear, it creates a huge gap between those who are in those top end guilds and those who are just joining or just getting to that level. Having one guild do all the top end PVE content because they can contest it the best because they have the most no drop gear with the best stats, and even if the no drop armor would be loot-able, you would just have people bagging gear again at the sign of a fight.

On a pvp server, you want to eliminate the reasons people do not engage in pvp. Being afraid you will lose gear you spent hours and hours camping or raiding for or w/e is a sure shot way to make people not want to stay.

You invest time in your character, and one of the best ways to show your investment is the gear you got. Taking that away is a huge part of what makes this game what it is. Spend a total of 40+ hours over multipul weeks camping something just to have it looted by a group of a wizard 3 mages a bard and a necro and losing just because your guildies werent online that night to group with you will make 90% of people want to stop playing and most of them quit.

Coin = YES.

Coin is trivial in the sense that it is only worth what is on the market, or what you can buy with it. You can still function at full capacity and pvp with or without coin on you. It doesn't have any major risk factors. We all know what mobs drop money, and where to get it, its something everyone can obtain. It doesn't stop pvp or make people want to quit the game because there isnt much time investment to get the money, and you can protect your money if your smart by making regular trips to the bank.

XP Loss = YES. XP Gain = NO.

If you lose xp when you die, that sucks for you. Its how it is if you get killed in pve. But if you tell people, go out there and kill someone over and over again for xp, and you start encouraging people to pvp not for the sake of pvping but for the sake of getting xp. I think that sends the wrong idea, people will not want to let others LnS, people will want to cc others just because they can get that free easy xp depending on who they are killing.

I think it would work at maybe + or - 8 levels from the top at 42-50 or 52-60, if all you do is pvp and raid there would be a good way for you to earn back xp from pvp deaths. But it would be too tempting to be a druid in a zone at 25 and have a monk at 20 and a paladin at 20 and you just track and kill them everytime they get their bodies or after they get them just because its like a free yellow mob with your class advantages of snare and sow at that level.

Thats my opinion, former SZ, RZ, TZ, and Blue server player since the begining of eq.

Xp loss on pvp would hurt the server more than anything just about. The non hardcores will rage too much if they lose xp + can't get their corpse/get multi killed. They will go "well this is too hard" and that will lead to more non hardcores to quit therefore lowering the server population. Why ruin something that is already nearly perfect. Also to add in I'm sure folks with less time to play would be completely turned off at double chances of losing xp. It wouldn't have quite as an affect on me because I have free time but for those with kids and busy irl, just doesn't sound like they'd stick around.

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by Haul [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Xp loss on pvp would hurt the server more than anything just about. The non hardcores will rage too much if they lose xp + can't get their corpse/get multi killed. They will go "well this is too hard" and that will lead to more non hardcores to quit therefore lowering the server population. Why ruin something that is already nearly perfect. Also to add in I'm sure folks with less time to play would be completely turned off at double chances of losing xp. It wouldn't have quite as an affect on me because I have free time but for those with kids and busy irl, just doesn't sound like they'd stick around.

XP loss on PvP death prevents bind rushing and it should be there for an added risk. It was also make clerics a bit more viable due to rezzes being a bit more frequent and with more clerics comes more grouping and people will be more likely to play melee characters.

I don't see what the negative is with losing a few blues of XP on a PvP death when a rez can fix that. Not to mention on PvP death casters spawn with 0% mana and a debuff that lasts 5 minutes to further penalize bind rushers

[Buhbuh]

Let's be real here, the hardcore people who dig item loot that are posting here will still play here regardless of risk/ reward. From what I've noticed, item loot hurts populations. I'd still play, but with the time sink that EQ already is, and with how tenuous getting a kill can be, let alone getting an item (and a good item, at that) item loot still makes the risk far greater than the reward.

EQ PvP had one other thing in it that most MMO's dont-- the illusion of glory. Everyone wants to be the best and very few are. Most think they are but...that's another story. People want the social aspects of EQ and the glory and praise for killing another player. It's a funny thing, because most of the epic fights without trains and uneven odds and bullshit are few and far between. That's a problem with the players, though.

No item loot. But coin, sure, who cares? I foresee a lot of loopholes/ exploits with EXP gains/losses in PvP. I wouldn't get too carried away with going above and beyond classic. We're all here in this discourse for the pure and simple reason that a classic PvP server might be released. Let's not forget that.

[Rushmore]

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's be real here, the hardcore people who dig item loot that are posting here will still play here regardless of risk/ reward. From what I've noticed, item loot hurts populations. I'd still play, but with the time sink that EQ already is, and with how tenuous getting a kill can be, let alone getting an item (and a good item, at that) item loot still makes the risk far greater than the reward.

EQ PvP had one other thing in it that most MMO's dont-- the illusion of glory. Everyone wants to be the best and very few are. Most think they are but...that's another story. People want the social aspects of EQ and the glory and praise for killing another player. It's a funny thing, because most of the epic fights without trains and uneven odds and bullshit are few and far between. That's a problem with the players, though.

No item loot. But coin, sure, who cares? I foresee a lot of loopholes/ exploits with EXP gains/losses in PvP. I wouldn't get too carried away with going above and beyond classic. We're all here in this discourse for the pure and simple reason that a classic PvP server might be released. Let's not forget that.

another vet who actually knows wtf is going on speaks. Thank you

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Haul [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Xp loss on pvp would hurt the server more than anything just about. The non hardcores will rage too much if they lose xp + can't get their corpse/get multi killed. They will go "well this is too hard" and that will lead to more non hardcores to quit therefore lowering the server population. Why ruin something that is already nearly perfect. Also to add in I'm sure folks with less time to play would be completely turned off at double chances of losing xp. It wouldn't have quite as an affect on me because I have free time but for those with kids and busy irl, just doesn't sound like they'd stick around.

Something that could address this issue would be the amount of xp lost from a pvp death, or being killed with no gear on wouldnt make you lose xp from a player, that way you could drag your body somewhere safe before you loot it. That would also help ccing bind camping.

[Lasher]

obviously my preferences for how a server should be are better and more logical than anyone elses that differs

basically what all the posts are saying

[Rushmore]

what is your vision? Too many people speaking up thus far that have no idea what to expect.