Big Thanks to Cloki from Omni

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by Juevento [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly curious as to what specifically you think was problematic with the C/R system?

I think when R has like 10 guilds and not rotating mobs, we still have to sock just as much as adding just 2 more guilds into the mix, but for far fewer targets. And socking is basically the one thing I don't like about this server's raiding. I am willing to trade shots at targets if there is no socking, but I am not interested in BOTH having to sock AND having limited targets.

This system works well if you are one of the bigger guilds in Class R because you will almost always get your socked target, but smaller guilds won't fare as well and will have to sock a lot, and limit the shots they take at targets when those targets are not R / FFA

[Raev]

Eliminating variance on R mobs would have been huge.

[arsenalpow]

Variance really needs to be cut by some amount and we need to get earthquakes back in. At least one a month would be very helpful.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think if the 'Big 3' stuck to the arguments you're making now about how to allocate rotation slots in a way everyone thinks is fair and what to do about stuff that spawns at 3AM, rather than the whole ultimatum gatekeeper stuff where mobs were locked behind other mobs that were more difficult, you would have made more headway to coming to a mutual understanding and agreement because many of your concerns were actually reasonable.

I could be mistaken, but wasn't there a couple months of negotiations before the ultimatum was made? And wasn't the ultimatum made because the other guilds didn't want to negotiate anything and continue business as usual? I still feel bad for Anichek about all the time he wasted.

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I could be mistaken, but wasn't there a couple months of negotiations before the ultimatum was made? And wasn't the ultimatum made because the other guilds didn't want to negotiate anything and continue business as usual? I still feel bad for Anichek about all the time he wasted.

I did not see the months of negotiations so I won't speak to that, but it's not the ultimatum that's the biggest problem there. It's the terms. If the terms in these negotiations included stuff like the gatekeeper mobs that were harder than the actual mobs they were gating, and really shortened kill windows on engages / kills like the version of the proposal that was made public, then of course these terms will be rejected by smaller guilds even if you debate them for months.

But I don't know what was in the other proposals. It seems odd that previous proposals would be more reasonable though and the one right before the rotation ended would be the least reasonable one (because that one was not very reasonable from my eyes as a member of a smaller guild, even if I do appreciate the issues with fairer allocation of rotation slots that the big guilds were concerned about). So I'm going to assume previous proposals were yet worse for smaller guilds.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did not see the months of negotiations so I won't speak to that, but it's not the ultimatum that's the biggest problem there. It's the terms. If the terms in these negotiations included stuff like the gatekeeper mobs that were harder than the actual mobs they were gating, and really shortened kill windows on engages / kills like the version of the proposal that was made public, then of course these terms will be rejected by smaller guilds even if you debate them for months.

But I don't know what was in the other proposals. It seems odd that previous proposals would be more reasonable though and the one right before the rotation ended would be the least reasonable one (because that one was not very reasonable from my eyes as a member of a small guild, even if I do appreciate the issues with fairer allocation of rotation slots that the big guilds were concerned about). So I'm going to assume previous proposals were yet worse for smaller guilds.

The first list of gatekeeper mobs was considered too tough, Sirken eventually signed off on the list but by then the smaller guilds were never going to accept any of the other changes (ally for one means you ally for all, etc) BDA and specifically Anichek put a lot of time into finding a better system but it was quickly shot down, months is probably a stretch.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The first list of gatekeeper mobs was considered too tough, Sirken eventually signed off on the list but by then the smaller guilds were never going to accept any of the other changes (ally for one means you ally for all, etc) BDA and specifically Anichek put a lot of time into finding a better system but it was quickly shot down, months is probably a stretch.

TL;DR - BDA wanted more pixels and found methods to do it. Honestly there was no intention of sharing with smaller guilds. You had to embrace the zerg herd mentality or get nothing at all.

Personally I think the "rules" should have been written by the staff, or to suit the smallest capable guild... not the largest.

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The first list of gatekeeper mobs was considered too tough, Sirken eventually signed off on the list but by then the smaller guilds were never going to accept any of the other changes (ally for one means you ally for all, etc) BDA and specifically Anichek put a lot of time into finding a better system but it was quickly shot down, months is probably a stretch.

I'm not sure what people would have done but my sense from talking to my own leadership is that there was in fact appreciation for the aspect of sharing rotation slots. For example I personally supported this idea (you are one rotation entity for everything) and people in my guild's leadership I spoke with about it seemed receptive to that.

I obviously can't speak to what people would have actually done or what other guilds thought.

My personal ideal way would just be to have a 'rotation entity' require to solo kill a mob in a race to get on rotation (you can try as often as you like) and then you can bring whoever you want on future attempts. And that a guild cannot be part of multiple 'rotation entities'. People seemed receptive to this, but very up-in-arms against the other stuff with gatekeepers and kill windows that made the rotation feel like a sockfest anyway. The proposal seemed to remove the 'casual' aspect of R while retaining the limited number of targets of R.

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man you got brainwashed. If the big 3 guilds wanted "moar pixels" then there wouldn't have been a rotation in the first place which of course is the only reason Omni exists, a splinter guild created for the sole purpose of using the rotation to get kills. Keep on doing your thing though, I'm sure Cloki's 5th twink could use some epics, like his ranger or Gats' level 24 wizard y'all decided to epic. I guess it's dire straights over there anyways seeing that Gats took off, he must have run out of twinks to gear.

Given I have member ID card #00004 I think I know why Omni was formed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And the summary is "We decline to implicitly condone Chest's behaviour by continuing to wear the BDA tag". But I'm sure your fantasy plays well in the BDA echo chamber so feel free to keep saying it as if it's true!

Thanks for doing your part to keep "Big Thanks to Cloki from Omni" at the top of the New Posts search tho [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regards,
Mg

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TL;DR - BDA wanted more pixels and found methods to do it. Honestly there was no intention of sharing with smaller guilds. You had to embrace the zerg herd mentality or get nothing at all.

Personally I think the "rules" should have been written by the staff, or to suit the smallest capable guild... not the largest.

TL;DR Swish was leading the Alliance of Welfare Pixels to pad out the rotation and make rent. It's okay Swish, maybe Platlord will give you better rates for trying.