If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Religion promotes education against all those things. Science doesn't perverse it's way into civil rights, unless you can give me an example?

Of course it does. The Holocaust was a prime example -- it was meant as a racial cleansing. They were trying to eliminate genetic pollution, for lack of a better term. That's based on science, just as much as anti-homosexual sentiment is based on religion. Both are completely convoluted misinterpretations, used by bigots with agendas to confirm and legitimize their own prejudices.

[john_savage1982]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What does religion give emotionally that a spouse can't, or a hobby or personal achievement?

Or do you mean it emotionally soothes people who are afraid of the unknown and/or death? Because I feel emotionally satisfied without believing there is a bearded man in space.

What does belief in an intangible super being give you that things in the real world can't other than a false sense of security when you're on your death bed?

If you meant this in seriously then this is exactly the emotional shallowness and ignorance of religion that I was referring to in my post. For many genuine believers, religion isn't about achieving feelings you get from things you experience on earth through your body. Religion acts more as a vehicle to experiencing outside the body - to experience the soul, the outside. This theme of connecting with the "outside" or as some academics call "the other" is present throughout most religions. Keep in mind that not all religions are monotheistic. Religion comes in all forms. Some don't even believe in any super-beings.

I'm curious, when you refer to "false sense of security when you're on your death bed" I start to wonder about your proximity to death in terms of your current health/age. Why do you invalidate peoples' sense of security through belief in god by calling it false? Perhaps what people feel is real - to them - and like I mentioned in my previous post, why is it so easy for people to ignore an entire aspect of being human? Are feelings not legitimate unless they have a definable causal reason related to physical phenomenon?

[john_savage1982]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Religion promotes education against all those things. Science doesn't perverse it's way into civil rights, unless you can give me an example?

The 20th century was one big struggle with science and industrialization. Go research eugenics and the 19th and 20th century. I'm not giving you sources it's a pretty major part of the 19th and 20th century.

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by john_savage1982 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you meant this in seriously then this is exactly the emotional shallowness and ignorance of religion that I was referring to in my post. For many genuine believers, religion isn't about achieving feelings you get from things you experience on earth through your body. Religion acts more as a vehicle to experiencing outside the body - to experience the soul, the outside. This theme of connecting with the "outside" or as some academics call "the other" is present throughout most religions. Keep in mind that not all religions are monotheistic. Religion comes in all forms. Some don't even believe in any super-beings.

I'm curious, when you refer to "false sense of security when you're on your death bed" I start to wonder about your proximity to death in terms of your current health/age. Why do you invalidate peoples' sense of security through belief in god by calling it false? Perhaps what people feel is real - to them - and like I mentioned in my previous post, why is it so easy for people to ignore an entire aspect of being human? Are feelings not legitimate unless they have a definable causal reason related to physical phenomenon?

Placebo effect. Just because they think they feel something doesn't mean anything. Also, you're quite presumption, throwing around the word soul. I believe people like that are delusional. But if course, if you get enough people who feel that way, it's a religion.

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course it does. The Holocaust was a prime example -- it was meant as a racial cleansing. They were trying to eliminate genetic pollution, for lack of a better term. That's based on science, just as much as anti-homosexual sentiment is based on religion. Both are completely convoluted misinterpretations, used by bigots with agendas to confirm and legitimize their own prejudices.

Is it ever fair to hold a historical figure personally responsible for all the future unbidden and unforeseeable consequences of all that he or she has said or done? Was Jesus responsible for the Inquisition or Muhammad for 9/11? Can we blame Newton and his laws of motion for the damage caused by cruise missiles? And even where one can establish a chain of causal links between scientific discoveries and their subsequent abuses, does this mean that we must belittle the discovery or close down future research?


Protestant Christians are on the shakiest ground when using this argument, as it allows us to indict Martin Luther for the Holocaust, with his On The Jews and their Lies (1543), which was avidly quoted by Hitler. Chillingly, the first of ten recommendations from Luther was “First to set fire to their synagogues or schools...” Should we really blame Luther for Kristallnacht?


In fact, Nazi ideology was derived from a range of ideas and beliefs, which included anti-Semitism, militaristic Nationalism, anti-Capitalism and anti-Communism. The Nazis also blended a distorted German Christian tradition with Nordic mythology and derived their zest for eugenics as much from ancient Sparta as from any modern sources. The influence of evolutionary thinking on Hitler was, if anything, very minor: nowhere in Mein Kampf does he mention Darwin, natural selection or biological evolution. In fact, in the first edition of the book, Hitler comes across as a young Earth creationist, claiming at one point that “this planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move through the ether devoid of men”.


The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.

Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler's genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.

off of

http://www.zimbio.com/Richard+Dawkin...onomics+Hitler

[chtulu]

Not only is science corrosive to religion, but religion is also corrosive to science. It teaches people to be satisfied with trivial super natural not explanations and blind them to wonderful real explanations that we have within our grasp. it teaches to accept authority, revelation and faith instead of always insisting of evidence.

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_daw...t_atheism.html

I really wish everyone who has any interest in gaining knowledge, whether you're atheist or not, would watch this clip. It explains and answers a lot of questions about why religion is harmful in today's society and the arguments that religion tries to bring up against evolution.

[chtulu]

This is why I am a militant atheist and am insulted by anyone who feels that religion should be respected and be left alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaJel...eature=related

[jilena]

If god was real, my ranger would have a cloak of flames. I mean seriously.

[Seeatee]

1. I love the way you wrangle EVERYONE who is religious or believes in god into one category, because you know, every single person ever, everywhere must believe the exact same thing and behave in the exact same way.

2. this whole thread is completely invalid right from the start because you are calling people who share a different opinion then yours idiots, there is and can never be any middle ground or shades of grey.

I am a Christian, I try and go to church every Sunday, I believe in god, I DO NOT blindly follow and or believe everything I am told, I do realize that church is a man made corruptible institution, I realize that the bible was cobbled together under very shady circumstances and that a lot of information was left out.

my 3 favorite bands are Ozzy Osbourne, Black Label Society, and Slayer.

I cuss like a sailor and am a total gore hound when it comes to movies, I also have a firm belief that all horror movies need more topless women in them.

I do believe in evolution, there is a lot of evidence to support it , I don't understand why we can't have our cake and eat it too on this one, god is all powerful entity who can pretty much do anything he wants anytime he wants, so why is it impossible that evolution was gods plan for creating man from the start?

do you still believe everyone who believes in god can be lumped into the same category? do I fit into your predefined box of what makes a Christian and or someone who believes in god?

to end, I would like to add that there is no way anyone can be 100% certain one way or the other, all the faith in the world can not prove god exists, and at the same time all the lack of evidence that god exists is not evidence that god does not exist - no matter what argument any makes no matter how passionate or well thought out and worded - no body can ever physically prove 100% one way or the other if god is real or not, so the best we can do is believe what we believe and keep our opinions to our selfs.

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[Chanus]

Cthulu.

I don't think you actually understand the meaning of a single term or definition you've thrown out in this entire thread.

Maybe stop linking things other people have said and actually put in the effort to understand these things yourself.

Your entire argument has come down to, "But this guy said this!" At the same time, you've thrown around terms like "placebo effect" and in the same sentence demonstrated you have no idea what that actually means.