Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[Humerox]

I never thought I'd say I totally agree with Abacab on anything...but both he and Bard have some very credible ideas.

I'm a huge supporter of teams, whether deity or race-based.

I'm gonna mull through some more posts now...

[vinx]

I think teams gives the server a different spin then just PVE/PVP if theres a decent population
I wouldnt recommend team play here unless there was a way to opt out (regional guild thing from another thread)
if it was open FFA within your team then why even have teams when you can just make your own purist or race team/guild with its own pvp agenda

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember with TZ, VZ, SZ, and RZ we all saw 1000+ playing there in the beginning.

Let's not pretend that is a luxury here. FFA seems like the most logical option.

[Galacticus]

It was said somewhere here already that the problem with teams is the reliance on the population. If there are 300 people on with 3 teams, thats 100 people you cant pvp against, and a bunch of them you might want to kill for being jerks. Its hard coded, and takes away from player choice.

Why have hard coded teams when you can just make guilds that act just like teams except you can chose who goes where and what your name will be.

Nothing is stopping a powerful guild to pick a certian team and create a guild on that team. If you are on the Evil team, and the best guild on the evil team wont let you into their guild, you cant have the option to join the second best guild because they are on the good team and the same with the third best guild.

[Halister]

I think a big reason for the project 99 server going so well is that it stays true to the classic experience. I believe you should set the same vision for the pvp server. It's nice that you are playing around with different ideas but i think the best way to go is classic also in the pvp rule set. This would mean coin loot only, no item loot, no exp gain and no exp loss. There is definately enough incitament for pvp for spawns and zonecontroll without any exp or item loss.

This would probably best be complemented by a loot and scoot policy, like it was on live. I'm not exactly sure, but i think on tallon zek the policy was you die you leave the zone for 1 hour minimum. It worked out well there, i think it could here aswell.

[Tamiah2011]

Originally Posted by juicedsixfo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude what? No risk? First off all, "less risk" will encourage people to stay in fight in situations where they would be running and bagging otherwise. Less risk will mean more and better PvP. Instead of fights stopping at 30% while the melee would run and bag, they'd actually stay and fight.

Corpse runs on a classic server will be plenty of "risk" enough. Remember, no soul binders all over the world.



Did you ever play EverQuest? The "reward" is your reputation, or the camp you just held down with the loot, or the impossible corpse run you just made for that dickless retard who griefed you back in the day. Item loot was a failed idea.

Dude did you even play on RZ, I sure did.No one gives a rats ass about reputation on pvp server.I cant even believe you just said that. lolol. If you were the best pvp on server I wouldnt give a crap,But if you had a piece of gear i like, I would gank you in a secound.

[Tamiah2011]

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Risk is still there, coin loss, but most importantly xp loss.

The reality is that when people can bag stuff, they will. Your talking about smart people using mules and not carrying coin, you think they wont be as smart when it comes to bagging gear, or the fact that there wont be very many melee characters because of how item loot hits them the hardest.

What makes you think twinks cant exist with no drop gear their higher level characters helped them get? Plus what chance would you stand against a fully twinked character with full hp gear and badass weapons with half of your gear. The twink will win, no matter if loot is there or not. Just wait till 4 twinked characters roll together taking out people.

The reality is 98% of the time, you wont get shit off of someone worth anything you couldnt get doing something else in the same time.

I alway went after the peeps that were twinked,Gave a crap about the other players with crappy gear.I alway went for the reward and there was not that many low level twinks when gear loot was active.After they drop item loot I so saw alot more twinks and all they did was grief players in lower level areas.

[Yukahwa]

Item loot is the only thing that makes the PVP actually intense and dangerous. It changes the dynamic and makes it so that ultra rich players are also risking their riches. Poor players risk less, but also will die more because they are weaker.

It means that ultra twinks wont get to just walk around with nothing to worry about. If you wear a fungi, you are not going to be messing around. Its better.

Coin loot certainly all coin. No XP gain. One item loot excluding weapons like it was for most of RZ. I don't think that on a PVP server recreation we need to go through all of the teathing periods of PVP including the length of time when weapons were lootable.

The above nailed it.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's be real here, the hardcore people who dig item loot that are posting here will still play here regardless of risk/ reward. From what I've noticed, item loot hurts populations. I'd still play, but with the time sink that EQ already is, and with how tenuous getting a kill can be, let alone getting an item (and a good item, at that) item loot still makes the risk far greater than the reward.

EQ PvP had one other thing in it that most MMO's dont-- the illusion of glory. Everyone wants to be the best and very few are. Most think they are but...that's another story. People want the social aspects of EQ and the glory and praise for killing another player. It's a funny thing, because most of the epic fights without trains and uneven odds and bullshit are few and far between. That's a problem with the players, though.

No item loot. But coin, sure, who cares? I foresee a lot of loopholes/ exploits with EXP gains/losses in PvP. I wouldn't get too carried away with going above and beyond classic. We're all here in this discourse for the pure and simple reason that a classic PvP server might be released. Let's not forget that.

This.

Seriously, everyone who's posting here is going to play on the server. We need to advocate for a ruleset that will HELP the server population, not destroy it like every other red box.

[Envious]

Originally Posted by Yukahwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Item loot is the only thing that makes the PVP actually intense and dangerous.

Lol, you want GM enforced LnS, but item loot?

Now you sound like you wanna play some Rallos styled WoW server~

The risk involved with LnS and Item loot is of the exact same TYPE, its called time. With LnS, you risk losing time of CR, with item loot you risk losing time farming that item.

The first time you make a 45min CR, just to get killed 2 or 3 more times, you will feel the risk as you toss your computer out of a window.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Halister [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a big reason for the project 99 server going so well is that it stays true to the classic experience. I believe you should set the same vision for the pvp server.

If you're going to do that, you're going to have to go down the timeline just like the PvE server, which means (depending on the server you're advocating for, lets pick TZ like you said) item loot at launch. PvP changed a lot from when it first opened up, and totally depends on the server.