So your guns keep you safe? - Page 22

Humerox · #**211** 12-31-2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, it is a knee-jerk reaction, because there's nothing new here.
It's only a 'tipping point' because you're reacting that way.
My right to own a 'dangerous and unusual' weapon isn't the question here.
The kid used a run-of-the-mill AR. Very common, very legal, and has been for decades.
So I what makes this different? What makes Newtown so fucking special for you?

If you can't see a clear answer to that there's no sense in debating the issue with you.

Goofier · #**212** 12-31-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Talk about people with their heads in the sand. We are an easily frightened people and it is easy to manipulate us with fear. What are we so afraid of that we need to have 300 million guns in our homes? Who do we think is going to hurt us? Why are most of these guns in white suburban and rural homes?

Can't be about fun, huh? Has to be 100% paranoid nutbags?

Goofier · #**213** 12-31-2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can't see a clear answer to that there's no sense in debating the issue with you.

Oh quit being melodramatic, you're making my point for me.
And my point is, if you can't actually articulate what you're talking about, you don't know what you're talking about.
The question pending being:
Why this incident? You used the term 'tipping point'. Why now?

Goofier · #**214** 12-31-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exonerated [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Doesn't sound like it was quite that simple, but way to go, sarge.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...ut-4123414.php

Humerox · #**215** 12-31-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh quit being melodramatic, you're making my point for me.
And my point is, if you can't actually articulate what you're talking about, you don't know what you're talking about.
The question pending being:
Why this incident? You used the term 'tipping point'. Why now?

Your being obtuse certainly doesn't do you any favors. I've articulated my position rather well. On the other hand, you haven't articulated any position at all except that maybe your belief in second amendment coverage is so sacrosanct there's no room for legitimate legislation...and even this you've implied, rather than state directly.

If in your mind the murder of 20 children and 6 adults in Newtown isn't a tipping point for a call to action, what would be? If one of the children was yours, maybe?

Goofier · #**216** 12-31-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your being obtuse certainly doesn't do you any favors. I've articulated my position rather well. On the other hand, you haven't articulated any position at all except that maybe your belief in second amendment coverage is so sacrosanct there's no room for legitimate legislation...and even this you've implied, rather than state directly.

If in your mind the murder of 20 children and 6 adults in Newtown isn't a tipping point for a call to action, what would be? If one of the children was yours, maybe?

Okay, first of all, calm the fuck down and drop the internet-forum, win-by-insult attitude. I realize this is a volatile subject, but this also ain't that.

I've been trying to articulate, but it's difficult with you dodging. I asked you to articulate, and the results are as expected: It's not the guns, it's the kids. At least that seems to be what you're saying, and if not, please clarify. I see your outrage, but my point (and several others) is that the gun is not the issue here, it's the outrage at the deaths of the children, with the emotion being taken out on the guns.

After all, it's easy.

Heck, not a single gun was used in 9/11, but thousands were killed. No background checks to get on a plane, no denial of flight if you've been committed to a mental facility or have a domestic violence conviction.

And not a single bullet was fired in Oklahoma, but look at all the orphans created in an instant. Look at the day-care that the asshole KNEW was in the building. No background check needed to rent a U-Haul, and still easy to get nitrogen-based fertilizers and diesel fuel.

Again, I understand your outrage, my point is your focus is misplaced.
It's not the guns, it's the nuts.
It's not the guns, it's the kids.

You want a hypothetical?
Okay, how 'bout we change the laws because not 20 kids, but thousands of kids every single year get killed, and we need to stop it.
Time to institute background checks on driver licenses.
Let's have fingerprinting for buying alcohol.
Let's license reproduction, and if you have any history of a domestic violence conviction, you're denied.

Goofier · #**217** 12-31-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locodan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fucking awesome video.

Humerox · #**218** 12-31-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay, first of all, calm the fuck down and drop the internet-forum, win-by-insult attitude. I realize this is a volatile subject, but this also ain't that.

I've been trying to articulate, but it's difficult with you dodging. I asked you to articulate, and the results are as expected: It's not the guns, it's the kids. At least that seems to be what you're saying, and if not, please clarify. I see your outrage, but my point (and several others) is that the gun is not the issue here, it's the outrage at the deaths of the children, with the emotion being taken out on the guns.

After all, it's easy.

Heck, not a single gun was used in 9/11, but thousands were killed. No background checks to get on a plane, no denial of flight if you've been committed to a mental facility or have a domestic violence conviction.

And not a single bullet was fired in Oklahoma, but look at all the orphans created in an instant. Look at the day-care that the asshole KNEW was in the building. No background check needed to rent a U-Haul, and still easy to get nitrogen-based fertilizers and diesel fuel.

Again, I understand your outrage, my point is your focus is misplaced.
It's not the guns, it's the nuts.
It's not the guns, it's the kids.

You want a hypothetical?
Okay, how 'bout we change the laws because not 20 kids, but thousands of kids every single year get killed, and we need to stop it.
Time to institute background checks on driver licenses.
Let's have fingerprinting for buying alcohol.
Let's license reproduction, and if you have any history of a domestic violence conviction, you're denied.

Automobiles aren't designed specifically to kill people, and a lot of legislation has been passed to increase safety. The same degree of scrutiny isn't to be applied to weapons that are designed to kill people really fast and in great number?

That's about the only part of your list I think is worth addressing. I understood the fact that you wanted to make it seem that my issue was the kids and not the guns, which - however ludicrous - would seem valid to some. The issue isn't about the kids. The kids are the straw that breaks the camel's back.

The issue with people talking about guns is the pro- "everything" gun lobby points to everything except guns. It's not that simple. People should NOT assume that I'm anti-gun because I'm against easily available high-powered weaponry that's used to kill elementary school children en-masse.

Bringing up Australia and Scotland as examples of legislation used to stop that type of killing has been ignored...likely because it's fact. I'm talking about stopping a particular type of murder that has affected other countries, and has been stopped in those countries. We need to do it here.

Common sense should dictate the actions taken. Gun legislation has never worked because it was enacted but not enforced, it never took into consideration or exempted what is currently owned in the US...there has never been a serious effort to establish standardized gun laws across the country. Why? Because gun legislation advocates are much less vocal and are much less likely to devolve into wild-eyed cavemen if told they have to be more responsible in society.

Extremist gun-rights activists miss that part. We are as responsible as a society as we are as individuals when it comes to this issue.

Goofier · #**219** 12-31-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Automobiles aren't designed specifically to kill people, and a lot of legislation has been passed to increase safety. The same degree of scrutiny isn't to be applied to weapons that are designed to kill people really fast and in great number?

That's about the only part of your list I think is worth addressing. I understood the fact that you wanted to make it seem that my issue was the kids and not the guns, which - however ludicrous - would seem valid to some. The issue isn't about the kids. The kids are the straw that breaks the camel's back.

The issue with people talking about guns is the pro- "everything" gun lobby points to everything except guns. It's not that simple. People should NOT assume that I'm anti-gun because I'm against easily available high-powered weaponry that's used to kill elementary school children en-masse.

Bringing up Australia and Scotland as examples of legislation used to stop that type of killing has been ignored...likely because it's fact. I'm talking about stopping a particular type of murder that has affected other countries, and has been stopped in those countries. We need to do it here.

Common sense should dictate the actions taken. Gun legislation has never worked because it was enacted but not enforced, it never took into consideration or exempted what is currently owned in the US...there has never been a serious effort to establish standardized gun laws across the country. Why? Because gun legislation advocates are much less vocal and are much less likely to devolve into wild-eyed cavemen if told they have to be more responsible in society.

Extremist gun-rights activists miss that part. We are as responsible as a society as we are as individuals when it comes to this issue.

Why does it matter that automobiles aren't specifically designed to kill people? They sure seem to do a pretty good job of it. Why do you get to pick what gets applied to what? Oh, right, moral outrage > all, so therefore my point is invalid. Way to go, you win at teh intarwebs!

I asked you to cut the message-board attitude, and this is what I get. My point is invalid 'cause you say so. Ah, well, the proverbial horse to water...

Please note that I asked and tried to clarify, I did not try to make your point the kids and not the guns. I'm trying to figure it out 'cause you can't just fucking say it, and yes that's how ludicrous it is and why I'm trying to figure out if that's what the fuck you're saying or not. Sorry, I'm trying to figure it out 'cause I'd rather not just dismiss your points out of sheer moral outrage.

And here's the big point: It IS that simple, but not for the reasons you think. It IS that simple because these easily-available, high-powered weapons are the very same ones that have been available for decades, and you don't make driving illegal or restrict it further simply because one 80-year-old man drives through a farmer's market.

I know it's not the same thing, but it is, and that's on you if you refuse to see it. We'll win the vote on it, don't bet against it.

And the neighbors are starting to show up, so fuck it all for now, happy new year [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Humerox · #**220** 12-31-2012, 05:46 PM

Happy New Year to you as well.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]